Author: Uri Blass
Date: 05:10:14 11/16/02
Go up one level in this thread
On November 16, 2002 at 03:56:14, Sandro Necchi wrote: >On November 15, 2002 at 14:14:13, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On November 15, 2002 at 09:39:52, Bob Durrett wrote: >> >>>On November 15, 2002 at 07:46:07, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>> >>>>On November 15, 2002 at 02:24:14, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 15, 2002 at 01:29:06, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 14, 2002 at 12:48:11, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On November 14, 2002 at 07:49:14, Vincent Lejeune wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On November 14, 2002 at 07:40:08, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On November 14, 2002 at 02:55:46, stuart taylor wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On November 14, 2002 at 00:59:54, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On November 13, 2002 at 10:32:11, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>On November 13, 2002 at 01:26:19, stuart taylor wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>On November 13, 2002 at 00:41:41, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>On November 12, 2002 at 13:55:34, José Carlos wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On November 12, 2002 at 13:30:49, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On November 12, 2002 at 02:48:21, José Carlos wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On November 11, 2002 at 22:08:13, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On November 11, 2002 at 19:13:19, John Rice wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I realize these engines are not even available yet commercially, but I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>guessing they have been beta testing for some time. For those of you involved in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the beta testing, or have access to beta results, which of these three engines >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>do you expect to top the SSDF? With Deep Fritz 7 and Chess Tiger 15 added to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mix, how would you rank all five from top to bottom? Here is my guess: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1. Shredder 7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2. Fritz 8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3. Chess Tiger 15 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>4. Junior 8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>5. Deep Fritz 7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On what is based your guess? Crystal ball? Marijuana? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christophe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you use crystal ball and marijuana? Or do you think anyone who posts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>something you don't like is in drugs? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> José C. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It's not that I don't like it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It's just that rolling dices would be a more scientific method. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>But who cares about science here? It's all about impressions and fantasy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christophe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Science is part of the fun. Impressions and fantasy are other part of the fun. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>None of both parts deserve the accusation of using drugs. Open your mind; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>there're more things in the world apart from science. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> José C. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Open your mind too. Never heard about "humour" (or "humor", depending on where >>>>>>>>>>>>>>you live)? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>It was an humoristic way for me to say that this prediction was bullshit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christophe >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Is my prediction (a few posts below) just as BS? >>>>>>>>>>>>>S.Taylor >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Any prediction that includes non-released programs is bullshit. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>It depends who makes it and how it is made. >>>>>>>>>>>A general statement like this is bullshit. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Christophe >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Sandro >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>And just wait and see if I was right! >>>>>>>>>>Junior 8 >>>>>>>>>>Tiger 15 >>>>>>>>>>Fritz 8 >>>>>>>>>>Shredder 7 >>>>>>>>>>DF. 7 >>>>>>>>>>And CM9K Utzinger very close by. >>>>>>>>>>S.Taylor >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>OK, here are my expectations: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Junior 8 = + 60 points over Junior 7 >>>>>>>>>Tiger 15 = + 45 points over CT14 >>>>>>>>>Fritz 8 will be postponed to make it stronger... >>>>>>>>>Shredder 7 = + 50 points over UCI Paderborn >>>>>>>>>DF 7 = we know it already. My expectation after seeing some games was 35-40 >>>>>>>>>points stronger than Fritz 7 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>1 Deep Fritz 7.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2763 >>>>>>>>2 Fritz 7.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2742 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>only 21 points difference ... so you admit that your error margin is 180% ?? ;o) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Yes, but I do not know this program as I do with Shredder and I think it will >>>>>>>gain some points in the near feature as Fritz 7 will loose some. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sandro >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Now you can guess the resulting SSDF list >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Sandro >>>>>> >>>>>>I mean that the final difference will be around 30 points. >>>>>> >>>>>>Anyway I AM NOT INTERESTED TO FIND OUT EXACTLY HOW MANY POINTS DIFFERENCE THERE >>>>>>IS BETWEEN A PROGRAM AND ANOTHER. For me 10-15 points more or less means very >>>>>>little. >>>>>> >>>>>>Today is difficult to see if a version is stronger than another and you are >>>>>>pointing out that the difference is about 14 points? >>>>>> >>>>>>SSDF makes very many games and still leave an error percentage, so how can I be >>>>>>precise 100%? >>>> >>>>Hi, >>>>> >>>>>Simply by giving more freedom for error in your estimates. >>>> >>>>I made predictions so I gave the most expectable value (to me). >>>>> >>>>>Instead of saying that a program is 35-40 elo better you can say it is 5-60 elo >>>>>better. >>>> >>>>5 to 60 does not mean anything. >>>>I would not say that player plays 1000 to 2700 Elo points... >>>> >>>>> >>>>>I do not believe that you or somebody else can get a good estimate for the exact >>>>>difference in an interval of 5 elo after seeing some games. >>>> >>>>What you believe is not important. >>> >>>If you wish to answer your questions [below] for movei, then Uri's opinions are >>>useful. You can gain insights into Uri's program which you could not get by >>>just studying movei's games. > >Hi Uri, >> >>I believe that today movei's chances in a game against shredder are small. >>Today I do not expect Sandro to study movei's public games(there are some public >>games of my private version). > >No, I am not doing it because you are not yet a contender to us. Maybe you are >the best programmer and you will create the best and strongest program. Then >I'll sure will study your program moves. > >Send me some games to my e-mail address and I'll tell you my opinion on your >progam. Thanks I may do it later. You can see some games of a version that is almost the last version in the following page when movei played in the second division. see http://www.geocities.com/cpf27/page9.htm It is still a weak program but the games prove that movei have chances against every program and even a game against ruffian is not a sure loss(Movei drew against Ruffian and even missed a win in that game). it's evaluation is very small and it is also still weaker than the top programs in tactics inspite of the fact that it may be faster in part of the positions. Today the evaluation includes no knowledge about king safety and no knowledge about weak pawns or passed pawns but you can expect things to be changed in the future. I also plan to improve it's pruning rules to do it better in tactics. Uri
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