Author: Bob Durrett
Date: 15:00:32 11/16/02
Go up one level in this thread
On November 16, 2002 at 16:28:14, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >On November 16, 2002 at 13:16:33, Bob Durrett wrote: > >>On November 16, 2002 at 12:29:35, Peter Skinner wrote: >> >>>On November 16, 2002 at 11:45:27, Bob Durrett wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>I'm Confused. C, C++, C#. Which to Use? >>>> >>>>I have an old Visual C++ compiler which I purchased many ago. But bulletins >>>>posted here seem to favor C, as opposed to C++ as if C is better than C++ for >>>>chess engine programming. >>>> >>>>Still trying to find the best C compiler to use for chess engine design on my >>>>Compaq 1 GHz 1GB RAM single-processor PC. >>>> >>>>Tried to download one but got error message saying NO! >>>> >>>>Yahoo! seems to find C++ compilers but not C compilers. >>>> >>>>Sorry for sounding like a child. : ( >>>> >>>>Bob D. >>> >>>About 2 to 3 years ago I wanted to write a program as well. Since I had no clue >>>where to start I based my engine off the GNUChess 4 source. I was learning C the >>>same time so it was nice to have a code to start off of. >>> >>>After 3 years I would never try to start from scratch. There are two main >>>reasons: >>> >>>1. I am not a very skilled programmer. I can implement things, but I ask a >>>million questions like yourself, and there is nothing wrong with that. People >>>here are great with answering questions. The answers I have recieved through >>>this board and the Crafty mailing list have helped immensely. >>> >>>2. Time. I don't have much time to program. Starting an engine from scratch >>>takes an incrdible amount of time. I would suggest that you look at some sources >>>to understand the different structures that Gerbil, Crafty, GnuChess anything >>>that has published source code. That helped me quite a bit. Those authors who >>>_have_ put the time in to start from scratch give the code out for people to >>>learn from and I am grateful. >>> >>>Personally if you want to write an engine, I would start in C. Most compiler >>>that are for C++ are C complilers anyway. I prefer the Visual Studio from MS as >>>the MSDN library has some great code examples to look at. >>> >>>That's my two cents. >>> >>>Peter. >> >>Thanks. The Microsoft Visual Studio's System Requirements seem to exclude >>Windows 98, which is what I have. Guess I'll have to buy a new $5000 chess >>computer. Convincing my wife is going to be a problem. I wonder if Visual >>Studio will run on a dual or quad processor machine? Anyway, I'm just joking. >>Maybe I don't need Visual Studio today after all. A pity, though. But . . . so >>be it. >> >>Bob D. > >My experience: I became interested in chess at about 11th grade, which was the >same time I learned to program in C. I of course tried to write a program to >play chess. Result: zip. I tried again during my freshman year of college. >Result: a move generator capable of generating 10,000 moves/second. Went back >to college. After my sophmore year, I tried again. This time I actually read >up on what other people, and I wrote an engine that actually did play chess >(rating about 1600). I actually precomputed stuff for the move generation, and >did some other things. Unfortunately I had massive transposition table and >quiescence search bugs. Finally, after my junior year I started from scratch >(again, sigh) using bitboards. I wrote a static exchange evaluator, which did >wonders for my Q search. Result: zappa. Even during zappa's creation, I have >rewritten parts from scratch (3 tries at the move generator, for example). A most interesting story. Perseverence wins in the end. > >The point is, writing a chess engine is *hard*. Writing a chess engine without >knowing how to program in some language is nearly impossible. For many tens of years, I did a lot of Fortran programming. But it has been at least twenty years since doing any programming. I started out on the original version of Fortran! Actually, I do not have any delusions of grandeur. My goal is to understand where the current state-of-the-art is in chess engines. I would also like to be able to talk semi-intelligently here at CCC. Especially, I would like to be able to make suggestions which contain some substance rather than just generalities. >I would recommend >you take a C programming class (learn the basics of syntax) and a 2nd semester >freshman CS class (learn basic algorithms and datastructures, approaches, and >get a general idea of "what is a good program, and what is a bad program"). My problem may seem unbelievable and even absurd. : ( I have taken MANY graduate courses in night school at the local university. But since then, I have put on about 100 lbs weight and simply cannot sit in those little chairs in the classrooms. When I started gaining weight, I would search for the one or two chairs that I could fit into. Now, I cannot fit into any. I don't like sitting on the floor, and it seems to upset the professors when I do. So, I try to teach myself. I am also on a diet. I have 150 lbs to go. Maybe in six months or so I will be able to sit in one of those chairs again. >You are like a man trying to play hockey without knowing how to skate. Basics >Basics Basics :) You got that right! Bob D.
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