Author: Serge Desmarais
Date: 11:11:29 09/13/98
Go up one level in this thread
On September 12, 1998 at 23:34:04, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On September 12, 1998 at 14:04:40, Serge Desmarais wrote: > >>On September 12, 1998 at 08:10:14, Moritz Berger wrote: >> >>>On September 11, 1998 at 17:37:48, Serge Desmarais wrote: >>> >>>>On September 11, 1998 at 06:25:27, Moritz Berger wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>You surprise me, here, when you say that Fritz plays opening moves with ONE >>>>>>occurence! On my computer, all the moves that are unique get a 0% chance of >>>>>>being played. Of course, if all the moves in a given position were played less >>>>>>than 10 times, that is another story. Did you set your parameters for Fritz to >>>>>>play a greater diversity of moves than the default settings? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Serge Desmarais >>>>> >>>>>Try it yourself: Open tree F11, follow the most popular move until one game >>>>>remains, click "move now" button, Fritz will display "in book" in the "seach >>>>>info display" and play the book line until the end. >>>>> >>>>>Moritz >>>> >>>> But that is another story! If ONLY ONE move is in book for a given position, >>>>it has no choice but to play it. But up to there, it must be a move that won the >>>>game. Do you think it should start "thinking" when only ONE game is listed for >>>>the only move given or for all the available move? That would be an interesting >>>>idea. Personnally, I think that Fritz should ADD the first move played by its >>>>opponent that is not in its book and also should start thinking if the results >>>>obtained by itself when playing all the available moves (or the unique move) >>>>weren't good. Of course, not based on blitz games, but on games of 1 hour/mate >>>>AT LEAST, or based on a certain minimum depth reached. It could also add its own >>>>reply in the book. >>>> >>>> >>>>Serge Desmarais >>> >>>I think that Ed's EOC concept looks better (where the book is a mere guidance >>>for the engine, but needs to be confirmed by calculation). If the engine gets >>>more "sceptical" about the book the fewer reference game exist for a given move, >>>this seems to be a good way to avoid extreme evals after leaving book (maybe >>>still playing hand-selected sharp lines, gambits etc.). >>> >>>Moritz >> >> >>Looks interesting to me! I don't have Rebel's program, except for the Decade >>version. So, you are telling me thet right on the first move, Rebel calculates? >> >> >>Serge Desmarais > > >I do this in Crafty. But it is dangerous. Just do "book random 0" and crafty >will do a search on the set of known book moves to choose one. But doing this >almost guarantees that it will accept any gambit, because the search is not >as deep as a normal search to save time. And accepting some gambits is quite >bad. Trying to hold the gambit pawn is generally worse... Okay, but at least it means that the program is not "prisonner" of its book. In some programs, if the ONLY book move for a given position is put as "noplay" and has a very bad evaluation (e.g. it loses a piece or allows a forced mate for the opponent), the program will AUTOMATICALLY play it, because it is the only move! So, if you find such a case, you HAVE to add another move (at least) which is correct as an alternative to be picked up. It was always a major flaw, according to me, in the chess programs, having to follow a losing line only because it is the only one available. As a human, even if I studied a specific line in an opening book, I can still decide to not play it/innovate at any point during my game. Also, that reminds me of something else about Genius which I thought at the time was an unfair advantage. I was playing a blitz game (5 0) at home against Genius 2, once. For the first time, after having been crushed so many times, I managed to block the position, so the program could do about nothing to break through. It was very simple to play, trying to repeat the position and all. And the program was thinking quite longer than usually, trying to grip on something, while I was only taking about 2-3 seconds to move. After a while, I had almost 3 minutes left while Genius had LESS than 10 seconds. Than, it dropped to ZERO seconds left, while I still had about 2:30 minutes! So, I thought I would win by the clock (for the first time in blitz!). But NOOOOOOO... It started to play instantly, always taking 0 seconds to move. But for me, it was not POSSIBLE to take zero time for a move, because just moving the mouse takes 1-2 seconds. And finally I lost by the time! That was the last time ever I played a blitz against Genius. It is impossible for it to lose by the time! It could play HUNDREDS of moves without taking even 1 second! Since the position was blocked for BOTH sides, neither could break open the position. It was not possible either to offer a draw (not implemented). Serge Desmarais
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