Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 08:08:34 11/18/02
Go up one level in this thread
On November 18, 2002 at 00:33:07, Uri Blass wrote: >On November 17, 2002 at 22:55:45, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On November 17, 2002 at 11:59:22, Christophe Theron wrote: >> >>>On November 17, 2002 at 10:48:00, Mogens Larsen wrote: >>> >>>>On November 17, 2002 at 02:50:30, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >>>> >>>>>I think the issue is if Chess Tiger wins, then it's no big deal because >>>>>it's the expected result and the competition were 2nd rank engines >>>>>anyway (see discussions after NK). If it doesn't win then we get the >>>>>'OMG Chess Tiger didn't win! The amateurs are so strong! ChessTiger >>>>>sucks/plays too passive/...' stuff. >>>> >>>>Now there's only "Chess Tiger is a chicken!" ;-). >>> >>> >>> >>>Everybody is free to buy it online and check what his homebrew chess engine can >>>do against the... Chicken! ;-) >>> >>> >>> >>> Christophe >> >> >>There is another angle. >> >>Cray Blitz won the WCCC in 1983 and 1986. By the time 1989 rolled around I >>_knew_ who was going to win that event.... Deep Thought. I didn't have time >>to go to that tournament. Cray couldn't give us machine time. Etc. >> >>But in thinking about it, I felt that Hsu needed his chance, and if Cray Blitz >>didn't show up, it would always "taint" his win, because "Cray Blitz, the two- >>time winner didn't play and it would not be clear which was better" would be >>the expected topic for years. As a result, I took time off that I didn't have. >>I found a company willing to do without a Cray for a few days so we could use >>it to play chess (Cray payed for the time). And I went and "took my lumps" >>along with everyone else. >> >>I personally think it disingenuous to use the "it takes too much time to >>prepare" excuse more than once every couple of years. Some commercial >>folks will participate in everything. Some hardly participate in anything. >>If nothing else, that is one disservice the SSDF has dumped on us, because >>if a program does well there, then that is enough to keep the program out of >>tournaments. >> >>If you look at my history (Cray Blitz), I competed in every event I possibly >>could, whether I thought I might win, or knew I would be playing for second >>place (after deep thought came along). > >Cray blitz stopped to compete and did not play in the world championship of 1995 >I also do not see how could you know the results before the events. It is all about "experience" and "skill". If your opponent is out-searching you badly, you are _not_ going to win very many games. An occasional game? Yes. But not over 5 rounds or more... The last event we played in was 1994. From 1976 to 1994 we hardly missed a single event, the only exception being when there was an ACM and WCCC event in the same year at different times. We couldn't get Cray time for two events in a single year for many reasons... > >Deep thought did not win in the championship of 1995 and there was no reason to >be sure that deep thought is going to beat cray blitz in earlier years. Believe me, it was a near-certainty. Anything _could_ happen. But it didn't. They didn't win in 1995 due to bad luck. In 1994 they had to forfeit the first round due to a power failure at the lab caused by a bad storm. They won _anyway_. > > I think that is the right way to handle >>computer chess participation. > >I think that in that time there were less events. >Today there is not a year that Tiger does not compete in a tournament. > >I think that it is wrong to criticize programmers for not participating in every >event that they can participate. I didn't criticize at all for not competing. I criticized for trying to make an excuse where none is necessary. If a programmer doesn't want to compete, that should not cause any discussion at all. But to say "too hard to prepare" is a bit of a stretch... >I am sure that part of the amateurs are not going to compete. > >Uri And that is their right. I am certain I will miss an event here and there as well. IE I can't attend the WMCCC events as they cover two weeks and I can't miss two weeks of class and be fair to students here. So I don't go. If, on occasion, someone volunteers to operate, and the rules allow this, then Crafty shows up without me.
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