Author: Dirk Frickenschmidt
Date: 07:35:49 09/15/98
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On September 15, 1998 at 01:35:25, Kai Skibbe wrote: Hi Kai, I don't have a K6 processor. From all I heard the K6 is a very nice alternative to the Intel Processors. Concerning Fritz5 on K6, let me cite Moritz Berger, who was one of those noting that other porgrams profited more from the K6 than Fritz5 (the latter being optimized for the still most spread Intels): Moritz wrote: >In my experience, Fritz runs about 25-30% faster on P200MMX than on K6-200. I don't know if this is something else with your K6 II-333 compared to a Pentium II 300. I only know that Fritz5 would do comparably better by around 25-30% speed in the SSDF matches or in my matches with two 200MMX machines compared to Thorsten's match on two K6-200. This is, as far as I understood, due to the fact that the Fritz5 code has been optimized for the more widespread Intel architecture. No big deal: this would be like playing a program on 200MMX against a program on 233 or 266MMX. Slight advantage, some (not too many) more points: no big deal. During the last micro world championship we had some much bigger differences in speed... The only thing I wanted to point out is that this may be *one* factor among some for a comparably weak Fritz5 performance in Thorsten's short tournament. And my main point is that this performance is - a) no reason at all for conspirative thories against Thorsten's way of testing - b) nor in favour of Thorsten's from my view biased opinion that his tournament could confirm Fritz5 as a weak program by definition so to say ;-) I do not imply *any* crtisism of the AMD processors. More than once I was short of getting one myself, and in the good old 486 times I was glad to use a K5-133 with a performance comparable to a P75 without forcing me to get a new mainboard. Kind regards from Dirk >On September 14, 1998 at 13:32:46, Dirk Frickenschmidt wrote: > >>On September 14, 1998 at 12:31:44, Bruce Moreland wrote: >> >>Hi Bruce, >> >>> >>>On September 14, 1998 at 11:41:33, Moritz Berger wrote: >>> >>>>On September 14, 1998 at 11:27:43, blass uri wrote: >>>> >>>>>I undersood that 18.Qd3 is in the powerbook and this was the reason fritz5.03 >>>>>played it. >>>> >>>>Thanks for pointing this out, Uri! I was too focused on checking the engine >>>>(analysis mode, book isn't displayed) that I didn't take into account it could >>>>have been in the book ... That's something that ChessBase could easily fix for >>>>the next releases: Don't play forced draws from book - if you're behind in eval, >>>>the engine will chose the draw anyway, so there's nothing to lose. >>> >>>So what is the conclusion as of this pont? I see some low-probability moves, >>>meaning 10-20%, but you'd expect to have these sometimes. >>> >>>There is one 0.8% move played, but I think it makes sense to give Thorsten the >>>benefit of the doubt on that one. >>> >>>In any case, that one move doesn't explain why Fritz did poorly in several other >>>games. >> >>I think if you add all factors within few games, the outcome is not that much >>astonishing as at first sight. >> >>1. Fritz5 *does* play poor games from time to time, and of course it has lots of >>losses against nice programs in 200MMX autoplayer games as well. No if you >>consider how often it happens while testing that wins and losses do not happen >>regulararly around the assumed playing strength proportions, but hat you >>soemtimes see some losses from one program in a row and then suddenly a series >>of wins (which happenens all the time if you test enough), you have *one* factor >>why a program can play poorly in a short tournament. >> >>2. It is well known that other programs profit considerably more from the K6 >>speed than Fritz5 (running optimal on Intel) does, leading to speed differences >>of around minus 25-30% for Fritz compared to an Intel pairing with the same >>programs. The SSDF results for example are based on using Intels, as far as I >>know. Here you have a second possible factor for comparably weaker Fritz5 play. >>This is no critique concerning Thorstens testing at all: I would never say it is >>no good to use a K6 for Fritz5, I just say if you do so you have to know what it >>means for Fritz. So you have a second factor > >Hi Dirk, > >Did you ever test fritz on a K6 ? I have a K6-II 333MHz (4*83MHz) and compared >it to a Pentium II 300MHz. Hasttable are exactly the same size. My tests say >that the K6 at the same prozessor speed is slightly better than the PII. The >fastes program on the K6 is Rebel. Genius 5 and Shredder 2.0 are a little bit >slower. > >Best regards >Kai > > > >> >>3. As you point out, there were some moves with quite a low probability of >>10-20% played out, and one with extremely low probability of 0.8%. So you get a >>third factor resulting in a relatively high amount of relatively weak openings >>in a small series of games. >> >>If you look at all three factors and at the two or so points by Fritz in these >>few games, you will hardly be able to find anything sensational in the outcome. >>As I saw even Rebel9 or Nimzo98 were playing below expected scoring, and it >>seems they did not face two of the three factors mentioned above. >> >>So I just keep being curious of new games from new programs I haven't tested >>myself so far and don't stare too much at the Fritz outcome. The tournament is >>too interesting not to get much more else from replaying the games, and I see no >>reason to be suspicious about Thorstens testing as long as there is no very good >>reason to be. And the on 0.8% move, however it may have occured, is not reason >>enough for me for long debates, as we both agree... >> >>Kind regards >>from Dirk >> >> >> >> >> >>>bruce
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