Author: Joachim Rang
Date: 13:49:23 11/25/02
Go up one level in this thread
On November 25, 2002 at 16:00:20, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On November 25, 2002 at 15:10:42, John Merlino wrote: > >>On November 25, 2002 at 12:56:59, Joachim Rang wrote: >> >>>On November 24, 2002 at 23:56:30, Terry McCracken wrote: >>> >>>>[D]8/4p3/4Q3/8/8/k1p3PP/1q3P1K/8 w - - 0 1 >>>> >>>>This is reposted as it was given little attention. >>>> >>>> >>>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?266990 >>> >>>yep, Terry is right! You can easily try it for yourself, by let the engines play >>>against themselves. Althoug many engines show a drawish score in the beginning, >>>they realize after a few moves, that white is going to loose. But you have at >>>least give the engines 1 minute per move: >>> >>>Here are a few winning lines: >>> >>>New game >>>Shootout (Ruffian1) >>> >>>1.Qxe7+ Ka2 2.Qe6+ Kb1 3.Kg2 c2 4.Qe4 Qb5 5.Kh2 Kb2 6.Qd4+ Ka2 7.Qa7+ Kb1 8.Qh7 >>>Qd5 9.Kg1 Kb2 10.Qh8+ Ka2 11.Qh6 Qd1+ 12.Kg2 c1Q+- 0-1 >>> >>>New game >>>Shootout (ChessTiger14) >>> >>>1.Qxe7+ Ka2 2.Qe6+ Qb3 3.Qa6+ [3.Qe2+ c2 4.f4 Kb2 5.g4 Qd5 6.Qf2 Kc3 7.Qe3+ Qd3 >>>8.Qc5+ Kd2 9.Qb4+ Ke3 10.Qc5+ Kxf4 11.Qf2+ Ke4 12.Qf5+ Ke3 13.Qc5+ Kd2 14.Qb4+ >>>Ke2 15.Qe7+ Qe3 16.Qxe3+ Kxe3+-] 3...Kb2 4.Qf6 Kb1 5.Qf5+ c2 6.Qe4 Ka2 7.Qc6 Kb2 >>>8.Qf6+ Qc3 9.Qb6+ Kc1 10.Qe6 Kd2 11.Qd5+ Qd3 12.Qa5+ Ke2 13.Qc5 Qd1 14.Qe3+ Kf1 >>>15.Qe4 c1Q+- 0-1 >>> >>>New game >>>Shootout (Shredder62, Blitz:10') >>> >>>1.Qxe7+ Ka2 2.Qe6+ Kb1 3.Qe1+ Ka2 4.Qe6+ Kb1 5.Qe4+ c2 6.f4 Qc3 7.f5 Kc1 8.f6 >>>Qxf6 9.h4 Qf2+ 10.Kh3 Kd2 11.Qd5+ Ke1 12.Qe4+ Qe2 13.Qc6 Qf1+ 14.Kg4 Qd3 15.Kh3 >>>Qf5+ 16.Kh2 Ke2 17.Qe8+ Kf1 18.Qc6 Qf2+ 19.Kh3 Kg1 20.Kg4 Qe2+ 21.Kf5 Qf1+ >>>22.Kg6 c1Q 0-1 >> >>Here's how CM9000, on a P3-733, plays it out (both sides with no ponder, 2 >>minutes per move): >> >>1.Qxe7+ Ka2 2.Qe6+ Kb1 3.Qe1+ Qc1 4.Qe4+ c2 5.h4 Qb2 6.g4 Qc3 7.g5 Kb2 >>8.Qb7+ Qb3 9.Qg7+ Ka2 10.Qa7+ Kb1 11.Qh7 Qf3 12.Qg6 Qxf2+ 13.Kh3 Qd4 >>14.Qh7 Kb2 15.Qb7+ Kc3 16.Qc7+ Kd2 17.Qh2+ Kd3 18.Qc7 Qc3 19.Qxc3+ Kxc3 >>20.Kg4 c1=Q 21.Kh5 Kd4 22.Kg6 Ke5 23.Kh6 Ke6 24.Kg7 Qf4 25.h5 Qxg5+ >>26.Kf8 Qg4 27.h6 Qg6 28.h7 Qf7# 0-1 > > >Why not 4, Qe2 rather than Qe4+? And this is why I'm not a particular fan of >letting a computer play such a position out and then draw any conclusions about >the position. Who knows whether either of those moves at move 4 are the right >move for white? And if they aren't, then the entire analysis is flawed... thats why one has to play not a single shootout but many with different timecontrols and different engines. Then one can look at different moves which come in mind and play on: 4. Qe2 is followed by c2. After the next white move black plays Qb2. After 6. Qe4 or Qf5 black plays Qc3. Well and then there are plenty of moves but black can escape the checks and promote its pawn. That's not a proof, but give a drawing line, we will crush it. Or let Crafty play with white vs. Tiger with black. I assume taht crafty cannot hold the position.
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