Author: Joachim Rang
Date: 00:35:41 11/26/02
Go up one level in this thread
O >> >>New game >>Shootout (Ruffian1) >> >>1.Qxe7+ Ka2 2.Qe6+ Kb1 3.Kg2 c2 4.Qe4 Qb5 5.Kh2 Kb2 6.Qd4+ Ka2 7.Qa7+ Kb1 8.Qh7 >>Qd5 9.Kg1 Kb2 10.Qh8+ Ka2 11.Qh6 Qd1+ 12.Kg2 c1Q+- 0-1 >> >>n November 25, 2002 at 14:26:33, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On November 25, 2002 at 12:56:59, Joachim Rang wrote: > >>On November 24, 2002 at 23:56:30, Terry McCracken wrote: >> >>>[D]8/4p3/4Q3/8/8/k1p3PP/1q3P1K/8 w - - 0 1 >>> >>>This is reposted as it was given little attention. >>> >>> >>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?266990 >> >>yep, Terry is right! You can easily try it for yourself, by let the engines play >>against themselves. Althoug many engines show a drawish score in the beginning, >>they realize after a few moves, that white is going to loose. But you have at >>least give the engines 1 minute per move: >> >>Here are a few winning lines: > > >I don't like that kind of "proof". If white makes a mistake that it doesn't >understand >early on, then it loses later. That doesn't mean the loss is forced. > >Note that I am not saying that it is not a loss, but I didn't see anything >forced when >looking at it myself... > okay, I took a further look into the position and now I'm uncertain. In a first shootout all games ended with a win for black, CT "sees" this from the first move. Tonight I let outplay crafty 18.14 and CT14 this position and here is what I got: Crafty 18.14 - Chess Tiger 14.0 for bob, 120'/20+120'/20+60' JOACHIM (1), 26.11.2002 W=16.9 ply; 353kN/s; 723.328 TBAs B=16.4 ply; 466kN/s; 60.623 TBAs 1.Qxe7+ Ka2 2.Qe6+ Both last book move 0.00/17 6:19 2...Qb3 -5.86/18 6:50 3.Qa6+ 0.00/18 6:18 Kb2 (Kb1) -5.87/18 5:46 4.Qf6 -0.02/17 6:46 Kb1 -5.86/17 5:56 5.g4 (h4) -0.01/16 37:42 5...c2 -6.34/16 5:58 6.Qf5 -0.31/16 25:08 Kb2 (Qc4) -6.30/16 5:58 7.Qe5+ -0.12/14 4:58 Qc3 -6.36/18 12:52 8.Qb5+ -0.12/16 15:06 Ka3 -6.34/17 4:41 9.Qa6+ -0.12/13 1:43 Kb3 -6.32/17 5:57 10.Qb6+ -0.12/13 7:57 Qb4 -6.44/18 9:58 11.Qe6+ (Qe3+) 0.00/13 3:58 11...Qc4 (Kb2) -6.84/17 12:52 12.Qb6+ (Qe3+) 0.00/12 1:59 12...Kc3 (Ka2) -6.60/17 4:39 13.Qe3+ -0.38/11 20 Qd3 (Kb2) -6.52/16 7:51 14.Qc1 0.00/14 14 Kc4 (Qd1) -6.48/15 13:33 15.Kg2 0.00/13 42 Qd1 -6.34/14 3:40 16.Qf4+ 0.00/12 2 Kd5 -6.42/13 6:41 17.Qf7+ (Qf5+) 0.00/14 9 17...Kd6 (Kc6) -5.66/12 3:20 18.Qf4+ (Qf8+) 0.00/14 9 18...Ke7 (Kd7) -6.21/13 1:18 19.Qc7+ (Qg5+) 0.00/13 9 19...Ke6 (Kf6) -6.21/13 39 20.Qc6+ (Qc8+) 0.00/13 4 20...Ke5 -0.18/14 39 21.Qe8+ (Qc7+) 0.00/18 6:01 21...Kd6 (Kd5) -0.33/19 47:17 22.Qd8+ 0.00/19 6:00 Kc6 (Ke5) -0.31/17 12:15 23.Qc8+ 0.00/19 6:02 Kd5 (Kb5) -0.22/16 4:59 24.Qd7+ 0.00/20 6:00 Kc4 -0.20/16 2:57 25.Qc7+ 0.00/20 6:00 Kb3 (Kd5) -0.14/17 2:49 26.Qb6+ 0.00/20 6:00 Ka3 (Kc3) -0.11/17 8:31 27.Qc5+ (Qa5+) 0.00/20 6:00 27...Ka4 (Kb3) -0.12/17 7:24 28.Qc4+ 0.00/21 6:00 Ka5 (Ka3) -0.10/16 3:25 29.Qc5+ 0.00/19 6:00 Ka6 (Ka4) -0.08/16 5:52 30.Qc6+ 0.00/20 6:00 Ka7 (Ka5) -0.06/16 3:36 31.Qc5+ (Qc7+) 0.00/20 6:00 31...Kb7 (Ka6) -0.19/15 2:02 32.Qb5+ (Qb4+) 0.00/19 6:00 32...Kc7 -0.17/16 4:03 33.Qc5+ 0.00/19 6:00 Kd7 -0.16/15 1:42 34.Qb5+ (Qf5+) 0.00/19 6:00 34...Kd6 (Kc7) -0.18/15 2:21 35.Qb6+ (Qb4+) 0.00/19 6:00 35...Ke5 (Ke7) -0.18/15 1:31 36.Qb8+ 0.00/18 6:00 Ke4 (Kd5) -0.15/16 1:34 37.Qb4+ (Qe8+) 0.00/18 6:00 37...Qd4 (Kd5) -6.24/15 1:37 38.Qa3 0.00/17 6:00 Kd5 -6.33/14 1:28 39.Qa8+ (g5) 0.00/15 5:59 39...Kc4 -6.38/15 2:35 40.Qa6+ -5.59/15 2:59 Kb3 (Kc3) -6.48/16 1:53 41.Qc6 0.00/15 10:48 Kb2 -6.39/15 2:39 42.Qb5+ -5.06/14 1:30 Kc3 -6.34/16 2:25 43.Qg5 (Qa5+) -5.25/13 1:59 43...Qe4+ -7.38/15 3:37 44.Kg3 -5.33/15 1:23 Kd3 -7.38/15 1:40 45.Qc1 (Qc5) -5.83/15 1:22 45...Ke2 -7.98/16 2:20 46.Kh4 -7.01/15 1:20 Kxf2 -8.90/15 2:05 47.Qd2+ -7.19/14 1:16 Kf1 -8.33/15 1:22 48.Kh5 -7.20/14 1:14 Qe5+ -8.96/13 1:18 0-1 Although the game ended 0-1 this is not convincing. In the middle of the game, even CT saw only a draw. After 37. Qe8+ CT shows a draw. So CT could not force the win...
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