Author: John Merlino
Date: 14:04:49 11/26/02
Go up one level in this thread
On November 25, 2002 at 15:48:52, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On November 25, 2002 at 15:13:37, John Merlino wrote: > >>On November 25, 2002 at 14:26:33, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On November 25, 2002 at 12:56:59, Joachim Rang wrote: >>> >>>>On November 24, 2002 at 23:56:30, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>> >>>>>[D]8/4p3/4Q3/8/8/k1p3PP/1q3P1K/8 w - - 0 1 >>>>> >>>>>This is reposted as it was given little attention. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?266990 >>>> >>>>yep, Terry is right! You can easily try it for yourself, by let the engines play >>>>against themselves. Althoug many engines show a drawish score in the beginning, >>>>they realize after a few moves, that white is going to loose. But you have at >>>>least give the engines 1 minute per move: >>>> >>>>Here are a few winning lines: >>> >>>I don't like that kind of "proof". If white makes a mistake that it doesn't >>>understand >>>early on, then it loses later. That doesn't mean the loss is forced. >>> >>>Note that I am not saying that it is not a loss, but I didn't see anything >>>forced when >>>looking at it myself... >>> >>>>New game >>>>Shootout (Ruffian1) >>>> >>>>1.Qxe7+ Ka2 2.Qe6+ Kb1 3.Kg2 c2 4.Qe4 Qb5 5.Kh2 Kb2 6.Qd4+ Ka2 7.Qa7+ Kb1 8.Qh7 >>>>Qd5 9.Kg1 Kb2 10.Qh8+ Ka2 11.Qh6 Qd1+ 12.Kg2 c1Q+- 0-1 >>>> >>> >>>IE in the above I would play 3. Qd4 after letting crafty search a while here. >>>Crafty thinks >>>Kg2 definitely leads to a black advantage after a while. IE the score sticks at >>>0.00 for >>>the queen move I suggested, while it steadily drops after Kg2... >> >>3.Qd4 is not a legal move in the above line. Do you mean 3.Qe4+? >> >>jm > > >Let me re-do the analysis. Somehow my analysis for the first position was >deleted, >and the above comment was _supposed_ to follow one of the later games, not the >first one... I didn't save what I was looking at so will have to reconstruct >the stuff >again. I _think_ the above 3. Qe4 was for the second "game" given but am not >sure... > >Bob Just for fun, I assumed that you meant 3.Qe4 in the first game, and had CM9000 play it from there at 2 min/move on a P3-733, no pondering. The game took MUCH LONGER to win, lending a little more weight to your theory that this may not be a forced win, but rather it is winnable by computers because the other side fails to find the proper defense: [Event ""] [Site ""] [Date "2002.11.25"] [Round ""] [White "CM No Ponder"] [Black "CM No Ponder"] [TimeControl "1/120"] [Result "0-1"] [Setup "1"] [FEN "8/4p3/4Q3/8/8/k1p3PP/1q3P1K/8 w - - 0 1"] 1.Qxe7+ Ka2 2.Qe6+ Kb1 3.Qe4+ c2 4.h4 Qc3 5.Kg2 Ka2 6.Qa4+ Kb2 7.Qb5+ Qb3 8.Qe5+ Ka2 9.Qa5+ Kb1 10.Qf5 Qc4 11.Kg1 Ka2 12.Qa5+ Kb3 13.Qb6+ Qb4 14.Qe6+ Ka3 15.Qa6+ Kb2 16.Qf6+ Kb1 17.Qf5 Qb6 18.Qe4 Kb2 19.Qe5+ Ka2 20.Qd5+ Qb3 21.Qa5+ Kb1 22.Qf5 Ka1 23.Qe5+ Qb2 24.Qa5+ Kb1 25.Qf5 Qa1 26.Kg2 Qa8+ 27.Kg1 Qc6 28.Qd3 Kb2 29.Qd4+ Qc3 30.Qb6+ Qb3 31.Qf6+ Ka2 32.Qa6+ Kb1 33.Qg6 Qb5 34.h5 Qc4 35.Qf5 Ka2 36.Qa5+ Kb2 37.Qb6+ Qb3 38.Qf6+ Ka2 39.Qa6+ Qa3 40.Qe6+ Ka1 41.Qf6+ Qb2 42.Qa6+ Kb1 43.Qd3 Qb6 44.Qh7 Kb2 45.Qh8+ Ka2 46.Qa8+ Kb1 47.Qe4 Kb2 48.Qe5+ Kb3 49.Qf4 Qc5 50.Qf3+ Qc3 51.Qb7+ Qb4 52.Qf3+ Ka2 53.Qd5+ Ka3 54.Qd3+ Kb2 55.Qe2 Qd4 56.Qb5+ Kc3 57.Qa5+ Kd3 58.Qa6+ Kd2 59.Qa2 Qe5 60.h6 Qb5 61.Kg2 Qc6+ 62.Kg1 Qxh6 63.Qd5+ Kc1 64.Qd4 Qg5 65.Qa1+ Kd2 66.Qd4+ Ke1 67.Qe4+ Kd1 68.Qd4+ Qd2 69.Qg4+ Kc1 70.Qc4 Qa5 71.Qf4+ Kb2 72.Qd4+ Qc3 73.Qb6+ Qb3 74.Qf6+ Kb1 75.Qf5 Qc4 76.Kh2 Qf1 77.g4 Qc4 78.g5 Qc7+ 79.Kg1 Qc6 80.Qd3 Qc5 81.Qe4 Qxg5+ 82.Kf1 Qb5+ 83.Ke1 Kb2 84.Qd4+ Kb3 85.Qe3+ Ka2 86.Kd2 Qb2 87.Qa7+ Kb1 88.Qh7 Qd4+ 89.Ke2 Qd5 90.Ke3 Kc1 91.Qg7 Qb3+ 92.Kf4 Kb1 93.Qh7 Kb2 94.Qg7+ Qc3 95.Qb7+ Ka3 96.Qa8+ Kb3 97.Qb7+ Qb4+ 98.Qxb4+ Kxb4 99.f3 c1=Q+ 100.Kf5 Qe3 101.f4 Kc5 102.Kg4 Kd6 103.Kg5 Ke7 104.Kh4 Qg1 105.Kh3 Kf6 106.Kh4 Qg2 107.f5 Kxf5 108.Kh5 Qh3# 0-1 jm
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