Author: Uri Blass
Date: 22:15:12 11/26/02
Go up one level in this thread
On November 26, 2002 at 17:26:59, Bertil Eklund wrote: >On November 26, 2002 at 16:34:05, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On November 26, 2002 at 15:07:57, Bertil Eklund wrote: >> >>>On November 26, 2002 at 13:16:05, James T. Walker wrote: >>> >>>>Hello Tony, >>>>Thanks for your comments. First if you have ever adjusted the rating list >>>>upwards I have never seen it. I suspect it was very early in the testing stages >>>>to get close to a percieved parity with human play. I also suspect that if all >>>>the adjustments are combined the result is definitely down. I also suspect the >>>>reason is because of the exageration of comp/comp games which keeps making the >>>>top ratings higher that they would be if actually calibrated to human ratings. >>>>That is all the point I was trying to make. You ARE trying to make the ratings >>>>resemble human ratings and not JUST trying to compare computers to computers. >>>>The error bars are probably accurate to the data they are fed with. I see no >>>>reason for them to be wrong although I have not tried to check them. Would you >>>>explain exactly what Thoralf has told all testers to do or not do? Can you tell >>>>what exactly is the organization method of creating the data. >>>>Jim >>> >>>Hi! >>> >>>The simple reason for the adjusting downwards are that almost every human are >>>used to computer programs nowadays. In the past most of the human games came >>>from tournaments, today most of the games are from matches when the human >>>prepares day and night against it. In example when I play against Mach3, I >>>performs maybee 200 elo better today vs when I bought it. The same goes for the >>>big guys when they play Fritz and co. If Kramnik hadn't played months with Fritz >>>and other programs I believe he should have lost. >> >>I do not believe it. >>I believe that kramnik simply lost on purpose. >> >>The reason that I believe it is the way that kramnik lost. >>Kramnik does not do one ply blunder in 120/40 games against humans like he did >>against Fritz. >> >>Kramnik is also not the person to do often speculative sacrifices and based on >>analysis of more than hundred of games it was possible to find only one against >>anand. >> >>The fact that kramnik did the blunders that he did suggest the conjecture that >>kramnik was cheating. >> >>Uri > >So you believe Chessbase paid him over 200000 USD for the draw of the match?! >Chessbase didn't pay the price-money and costs for the match. >Fritz also had an almost won position in game 7 but Chessbase immediately >accepted a draw. If they had paid the price-money, they should of course have >played on. Why did he prepare so hard for the games if he intended to lose the >games on purpose. > >Bertil I do not think that chessbase paid kramnik money money directly to lose I suspect that kramnik lost on purpose because he thougt that after a draw there is going to be an interest in a new match so he can get more money. It is better in order to prevent things like this in the future to decide before the match that another match against the same person is going to happen only if he get better result relative to other humans so kramnik is going to know that if he draws and another player wins then he does not get opportunity for another match. Another possibility is that kramnik wanted to earn money from guessing that the result is going to be a draw so after leading 3-1 he put money for a 4-4 draw. I think that it is better in order to reduce this possibility not to pay players for losing or drawing the match but only for winning the match. If no human agree to play in the condition that you get money only for winning the match that it is a real proof that machines are better but I suspect that GM's like smirin will agree to play 8 games 120/40 against every computer when the conditions are that smirin get 500,000$ for winning the match and nothing for drawing and losing. Smirin proved that he can do 5-3 against 4 different programs at faster time control. Fritz is probably better than these programs but the possibility to prepare for one specific program and the longer time control is clearly enough compensation. Uri
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