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Subject: Re: Alternatives to Using Position Eval FUNCTIONS?

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 10:52:01 11/27/02

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On November 27, 2002 at 13:02:19, Bob Durrett wrote:

>On November 27, 2002 at 12:01:24, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On November 27, 2002 at 09:49:55, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Disclaimer:  I do not know the specifics of how position evaluation is
>>>accomplished in the top chess engines.
>>>
>>>
>>>From what I have read here, position evaluation is typically accomplished with a
>>>"function."  This function appears to be fairly simple.  Otherwise it would be
>>>called a position evaluation "subprogram."  Since a large number of positions
>>>are evaluated, the evaluation must be very quick and hence simple.
>>>
>>>Less processor time is available for searching if the amount of processor time
>>>used for position evaluation is increased.  In an extreme example, one might
>>>devote 90% of the processor time to position evaluation.  I do not know what
>>>this percentage is in practice. If a huge number of positions are evaluated,
>>>then the total amount of processor time devoted to evaluation might be large.
>>>
>>>It seems that there is a tradeoff between complexity of position evaluation and
>>>the number of positions evaluated. My impression is that current engines devote
>>>only a very small percentage of the processor time to evaluation of any given
>>>position.
>>>
>>>Devoting a large amount of processor time to position evaluation of each
>>>individual position would make sense, or so it seems, only if the evaluation
>>>were very very good.  Essentially, this would mean evaluating only a relatively
>>>few positions but evaluating them extremely well, using a complex position
>>>evaluation subprogram.
>>>
>>>In theory, a perfect evaluation subprogram would have to evaluate only one
>>>position for each move made.  Maybe someone would say that chess engines do just
>>>that.  They "evaluate" the position after the move was made.  They just do it
>>>using search algorithms.
>>>
>>>
>>>So, this leads to the following question:
>>>
>>>Has anybody yet explored the option of using complex evaluation subprograms
>>>[which do not rely primarily on the use of search algorithms] for position
>>>evaluation?
>>>
>>>Bob D.
>>
>>
>>You definition of "simple" is very vague.  For example, is Crafty "simple" or
>>"complex"??
>
>I was definitely NOT saying Crafty is simple!!!!  I was referring to the
>position evaluation code only.  Also, I meant simple in a relative sense, when
>compared to more complex evaluation, or to the overall chess engine program.
>
>>Whichever you choose, Crafty spends over 50% of the total time used for
>>selecting a move in executing the evaluation code.
>
>**********************************************
>
>That is very interesting information!  It would be nice to have similar
>information for other chess engines.  [Hint.]

It is not clear.

Movei of today still use the number of legal moves in order to use it in the
evaluation.
Should I calculate the time of generating moves in the time of the evaluation?

Uri



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