Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Stalemating swindle

Author: Alastair Scott

Date: 08:47:22 11/28/02

Go up one level in this thread


On November 28, 2002 at 11:00:28, James T. Walker wrote:

>On November 28, 2002 at 03:32:44, Alastair Scott wrote:
>
>>On November 28, 2002 at 00:55:28, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On November 27, 2002 at 23:45:47, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 27, 2002 at 15:44:03, Alastair Scott wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 27, 2002 at 10:44:12, Richard Pijl wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I had special detection code for rambling rooks in the Baron, but removed that
>>>>>>in 0.99.3 as it fired wrongly in certain cases. This means that Baron 0.99.4
>>>>>>beta 1 doesn't find the draw.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Baron 0.36 (containing the rambling rook detection code) has no problem
>>>>>>detecting the draw, it spots it immediately, showing Kxe3 as the PV. When backup
>>>>>>up to the diagram position it doesn't show the draw anymore. The reason is that
>>>>>>Baron considers 60..gxh3 a mistake, enabling the draw. Instead, Baron 0.36 will
>>>>>>play 60..Rge2!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have been thinking a lot about a better way to detect perpetual check's but
>>>>>>haven't implemented anything yet.
>>>>>
>>>>>You're right - I saw Rge2 immediately after I played Rh3, but Ruffian never even
>>>>>considered it.
>>>>>
>>>>>But Crafty 19.1 comes up with a remarkable shot after 33 seconds (at 14 ply) -
>>>>>60..Rg1+. I doubt very much whether any human player would ever dream up _that_.
>>>>>
>>>>>Interestingly, the right move is played for the wrong reasons; Crafty, up until
>>>>>then, plays 60..gxh3 with a score of -6.5. It then moves to 60..Rg1+ with a
>>>>>score of -10 without ever realising that gxh3 should have a score of 0 ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>Alastair
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'm not understanding the crafty comment above.  If Rg1 is -10, and gxh3 is -6,
>>>>I can see why it would prefer Rg1 over gxh3, so that white has g1 as a way out.
>>>>But why would it want to play a move that leads to a draw when it can get a -10,
>>>>which is good for black???
>>>
>>>The comment is that crafty does not see the draw
>>>for gxh3 and prefers Rg1+ only because Rg1+
>>>has a bigger advantage.
>>>
>>>This is what was considered as the wrong reason
>>>by the poster.
>>
>>Couldn't have put it better myself :)
>>
>>This is proving a tricky position. For example, SOS plays ..gxh3 and doesn't
>>seem to understand the position at all; it sees Rxe3+ but goes from 7 to 18 ply
>>thereafter with a score of -6.6 ...
>>
>>Alastair
>
>Isn't that natural since it will probably take 100 ply to see the draw?
>Jim

Yes - it would seem that either:

- a program has code to detect this sort of draw so sees it more or less
instantaneously or

- it doesn't and is condemned to traverse the 100 ply.

It's interesting, as the position is virtually static and the 'pattern' - White
Rook continually putting itself next to Black King without deflecting the Rg2
away from the g-file - repeats 50 times ...

Alastair



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.