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Subject: Re: Dual AMD v Intel Was Re: Here is the comparison !

Author: Aaron Gordon

Date: 20:11:02 11/28/02

Go up one level in this thread


On November 28, 2002 at 20:05:11, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On November 27, 2002 at 16:57:52, Wayne Lowrance wrote:
>
>>On November 26, 2002 at 11:06:33, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On November 26, 2002 at 08:28:26, Brian Richardson wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 26, 2002 at 02:28:19, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 25, 2002 at 17:37:29, Brian Richardson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 25, 2002 at 16:29:39, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On November 25, 2002 at 16:00:56, Brian Richardson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On November 25, 2002 at 14:33:16, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On November 25, 2002 at 10:19:13, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On November 25, 2002 at 02:45:35, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On November 24, 2002 at 23:10:44, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On November 24, 2002 at 15:06:55, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On November 24, 2002 at 14:25:47, Joachim Rang wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On November 24, 2002 at 14:19:06, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On November 24, 2002 at 13:15:09, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On November 24, 2002 at 11:49:07, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.specbench.org/osg/cpu2000/results/res2002q3/cpu2000-20020909-01635.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Didn't someone say RDRAM was bad for chess?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob D.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>But is still faster than any single processor available with any other memory.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pichard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Athlon XP 2600+ is 17% faster:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.specbench.org/osg/cpu2000/results/res2002q3/cpu2000-20020812-01551.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Really, I must be blind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pichard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>And faster still is the Athlon XP 2800+:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.spec.org/osg/cpu2000/results/res2002q4/cpu2000-20020923-01691.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>You are still missing the point here:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Did you check how many CPU(s)were enabled: = 1 for this test, I did NOT see
>>>>>>>>>>>CPU(s) enabled: = 2
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Pichard.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Both of guys provide examples with 1 CPU enabled. When I do likewise, I'm
>>>>>>>>>>somehow missing the point. Okey-dokey, I think I can live with that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Sorry, I meant to say all of you missed the point, but at the same time when
>>>>>>>>>only 1 CPU is enabled, the Intel can not compete with any Athlon XP 2600+ or
>>>>>>>>>higher. Now if AMD release a Dual 2400 MP, it will beat the @#$+ out of Intel
>>>>>>>>>higher Xeon.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Pichard.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Actually, just the opposite has been shown for 32bit AMD
>>>>>>>>(e.g., slower than dual Xeon).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Brian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Probably for the Dual 2200+ but NOT for the upcoming Dual 2400+ MP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.html?i=1747&p=10
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.html?i=1747&p=12
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Pichard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Multiprocessor performance is highly application dependent.
>>>>>>In this case, AMD does much worse with chess applications
>>>>>>(regardless of clock speed), than Intel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thus, while the benchmarks cited above are meaningful, they
>>>>>>only apply to the workloads being tested, which have little to do with
>>>>>>computer chess.
>>>>>
>>>>>Just wait until AMD release the Dual 2600+ MP, and install Deep Fritz on one of
>>>>>this baby and compare it against a Dual Xeon 2.8 Ghz.
>>>>>
>>>>>Pichard.
>>>>
>>>>I will always bow to the data, but based on results so far, dual AMDs have
>>>>a scalability efficiency of about only 1.4x (where 2x would be ideal).
>>>>Dual Intels are at about 1.8-1.9x, at least for good SMP code (like Crafty's).
>>>>This more than makes up for individual AMD CPUs being somewhat faster than
>>>>Intel.  I would expect any 32bit AMD to be about the same, due to memory
>>>>bottlenecks.  This is not an issue for more general workloads.
>>>>The 32-64x Hammers should do much better.
>>>>Brian
>>>
>>>
>>>If you read the "underground analysis" it would seem that this is going to get
>>>worse.  The new AMDs are supposed to have a built-in memory controller on the
>>>processor chip.  Unfortunately, it is now known that it is an inferior
>>>controller compared to late Intel offerings.  The question is, how is AMD going
>>>to respond?  The answer is unknown, but if they don't, they will get their
>>>clock cleaned (again).
>>
>>Again ? The heck you say ! Go to Tom's hardware. Also as for as I know a P4 is
>>much inferior to AMD's performance clock vs clock.
>>Thanks
>>Wayne
>
>
>That has nothing to do with what I said.  AMD implemented a single-channel
>memory controllor.  Intel is now using dual-channel...  And their memory
>bandwidth is steadily going up while AMD is stuck with the design they chose
>for the moment...
>
>Whether their CPU is more efficient or not is one issue.  But clearly their
>duals are significantly worse than Intel's duals...  more so than their single
>cpu speed advantage can cover for...

Nforce2 is dual-channel DDR board for Tbird/AthlonXP's/AthlonMP's (single cpu).
Also as I've said in the past (and proven, look for the messages I've posted if
you don't remember for some reason) the dual AMD systems running with a 1.7x
speedup can beat any of the P4's even with the P4's having a 1.9x speedup.

Also, I don't doubt you're a talented programmer, teacher, etc. However. If
you're going to test something please make sure to test it properly. I'm not
trying to be 'mean' or anything like that. I am a perfectionist though and it
really bugs me when I see something done improperly. Dual AMD systems with
Crafty can get a 1.66-1.70x speedup, not the 1.4x you're always posting. If
you're going to test something why not do it right? Thats all I'm asking.

If you're a teacher in a university you should be able to ask around and run one
of the binaries I compiled on a dual AMD system one of the students own. If you
want to compile it yourself I can give you the compiler options I used and
profiling methods. Now, Slate and I have already done that but if for some
reason you need to see the numbers produced directly infront of you then what I
stated above is a completely viable option.



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