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Subject: Re: Hard testposition

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 01:38:22 12/02/02

Go up one level in this thread


On December 02, 2002 at 04:03:35, David Rasmussen wrote:

>On December 01, 2002 at 18:34:09, Roy Eassa wrote:
>
>>
>>OK, I think I see now.  A brief analysis:
>>
>>1.Qe6!
>>
>>   [1.Nd8 h6 2.Ne6 Ne8 3.Qf8+ Kh7 4.Qf4 Qc3 5.Rc1 Qb2 6.Kg2 Nf6 7.Qxb8 Qxc1
>>    8.Qxa7 Nh5 9.Qf7 Qc8 10.Qf5+ Kh8 11.Nxg7 Qxf5 12.Nxf5 Nf4+ 13.Kg3 Ne2+
>>    14.Kg4 Nc3 15.Nxh6 b5 +-]
>>
>>1...h5 2.Ng5+ Kh8 3.Qf5! Qxa2
>>
>>   [3...Kg8 4.Re7 Qb4
>>      (4...h4 5.Kg2 Qc1 6.h3 Qc5 7.Rxg7+ Kxg7 8.Ne6+ +-)
>>    5.Rxa7 Qe1+ 6.Kg2 Qe8 7.Ne6 Nd7 8.Qd5 +-]
>>
>>4.Re7 Qa3 5.Rf7 Kg8 6.h4! Rf8
>>
>
>Several times along this analysis, Chezzz finds the right move (although not at
>the beginning, in reasonable time). But this move seems to be a key move for
>Chezzz. It has a hard time finding Re7. It prefers Qg6 here for a long time.
>Maybe if Re7 was more obvious for Chezzz in this position, the solution to the
>original position would be easier to find. So I think that this makes a good
>test position (at least for amateurs):

I am not sure if Re7 is the only winning move

>
>[D]1r5k/p5p1/1p3n2/5QNp/8/5P2/q4P1P/4R1K1 w - - 0 4
>
>Chezzz actually prefers Re6 here, but it seems that this has a lot to do with
>hashing. If I search for some time (say, a minute) and stop the search, and then
>redo the search (without clearing the hashtable) Re7 is sometimes found
>immediately. This sort of behavior I've seen before, and it annoys me. I don't
>know if it's a bug or what. I suspect that it is a common hashing/null
>move/repetition/whatever problem.
>
>time         nodes depth    score  pv
>00:00:00.14   77kn 06/11/12 -1.465 4. Qe5 Rd8 5. Ne4 Rd5
>                                   6. Qe6 Nd7
>00:00:00.21  122kn 06/13/13 -1.220 4. Re7 Qa1+ 5. Kg2 Qa3
>                                   6. Nf7+ Kg8 7. Nh6+ gxh6
>                                   8. Qxf6
>00:00:00.29  165kn 06/14/14 -1.187 4. Qg6!
>00:00:00.40  225kn 06/14/14 -0.425 4. Qg6 h4 5. Re7 Qa1+
>                                   6. Kg2 h3+ 7. Nxh3 Nd5
>00:00:00.43  234kn 06/14/14 ---------------------------------------------------
>00:00:00.54  303kn 07/15/15 -0.205 4. Qg6 h4 5. Re7 Qa1+
>                                   6. Kg2 h3+ 7. Nxh3 Rg8
>                                   8. Ng5
>00:00:00.64  337kn 07/15/15 ---------------------------------------------------
>00:00:01.06  572kn 08/17/17 +0.000 4. Qg6 h4 5. Re7 Qa1+
>                                   6. Kg2 h3+ 7. Kxh3 Qf1+
>                                   8. Kg3 Qg1+ 9. Kh3 Qf1+
>00:00:01.17  625kn 08/17/17 ---------------------------------------------------
>00:00:01.68  930kn 09/19/22 +0.000 4. Qg6 h4 5. Re7 Qa1+
>                                   6. Kg2 h3+ 7. Kxh3 Qf1+
>                                   8. Kg3 Qg1+ 9. Kh3 Qf1+
>00:00:02.37 1292kn 09/20/22 ---------------------------------------------------
>00:00:03.62 2066kn 10/22/23 +0.000 4. Qg6 h4 5. Re7 Qa1+
>                                   6. Kg2 h3+ 7. Kxh3 Qf1+
>                                   8. Kg3 Qg1+ 9. Kh3 Qf1+
>00:00:09.93 5511kn 10/23/24 ---------------------------------------------------
>00:00:13.56 7614kn 11/26/26 +0.000 4. Qg6 Qa3 5. Nf7+ Kg8
>                                   6. Nh6+ Kh8 7. Nf7+
>00:00:43.73   24Mn 11/26/27 +0.333 4. Re6!


Movei00_782 shows similiar behaviour


depth=11 +0.01 e1e6
Nodes: 9412638 NPS: 185873
Time: 00:00:50.64
depth=11 +0.30 e1e6
Nodes: 11266209 NPS: 182655
Time: 00:01:01.68


>00:01:50.70   58Mn 11/28/28 +1.160 4. Re6 Kg8 5. Kg2 Qd5
>                                   6. Rxf6 Qxf5 7. Rxf5 a6

depth=11 +2.58 e1e6 h8g8 g1g2 a2d5 e6f6 d5f5 f6f5 b8e8 f5d5 g8f8 d5d7 e8e7
Nodes: 23372794 NPS: 181903
Time: 00:02:08.49

>                                   8. Ne4 h4 9. Re5
>00:01:58.87   63Mn 11/28/28 ---------------------------------------------------

depth=11 +2.58 e1e6 h8g8 g1g2 a2d5 e6f6 d5f5 f6f5 b8e8 f5d5 g8f8 d5d7 e8e7
Nodes: 23372794 NPS: 181903
Time: 00:02:08.49

>00:02:22.67   74Mn 12/27/30 +1.085 4. Re6 Kg8 5. Kg2 Qd5
>                                   6. Rxf6 Qxf5 7. Rxf5 a6
>                                   8. Ne4 g6 9. Re5 a5

depth=12 +2.59 e1e6 h8g8 g1g2 a2d5 e6f6 d5f5 f6f5 b8d8 g2g3 g7g6 g5e6 g6f5 e6d8
Nodes: 34692304 NPS: 182696
Time: 00:03:09.89

>00:02:33.21   80Mn 12/27/30 ---------------------------------------------------

depth=12 +2.59 e1e6 h8g8 g1g2 a2d5 e6f6 d5f5 f6f5 b8d8 g2g3 g7g6 g5e6 g6f5 e6d8
Nodes: 88632716 NPS: 183398
Time: 00:08:03.28

>force:44.06   86Mn 13/29/30   1/41 4. Re6

depth=13 +2.69 e1e6 h8g8 g1g2 a2d5 e6f6 d5f5 f6f5 b8d8 g2g3 g7g6 f5f6 g8g7 f6f7
g7h6 g3f4
Nodes: 111383437 NPS: 183901
Time: 00:10:05.67

>
>
>        Time used: 00:02:45.37
>        nps: 525234     nodes: 86863298 Q-nodes: 2538298 (2%)
>        move order: 95%
>        hash probes: 20649151   hash hits: 6194318 (29%)        hash usage: 95%
>        pawn hash probes: 41198561      pawn hash hits: 41190951 (99%)
>        EGTB probes: 22
>
>Chezzz also have problems finding 6. h4! quickly :

Again same for Movei that likes Kg2 at small depthes
>
>time         nodes depth    score  pv
>00:00:00.14   72kn 06/13/13 +0.710 6. Kg2 Qa5 7. Rxf6 Qxf5
>                                   8. Rxf5 a5
>00:00:00.21   93kn 06/14/14 ---------------------------------------------------
>00:00:00.22   98kn 07/10/10 +1.043 6. Kg2!
>00:00:00.25  117kn 07/15/15 +1.085 6. Kg2 Qa5 7. Rxf6 Qxf5
>                                   8. Rxf5 a6 9. Rf7
>00:00:00.33  144kn 07/15/15 ---------------------------------------------------
>00:00:00.36  159kn 08/17/18 +1.010 6. Kg2 Qa5 7. Rxf6 Qxf5
>                                   8. Rxf5 a6 9. Rf7 a5
>00:00:00.50  211kn 08/17/18 ---------------------------------------------------
>00:00:00.55  243kn 09/15/16 +1.343 6. Kg2!
>00:00:00.96  510kn 09/20/20 +1.580 6. Kg2 Qa5 7. Rb7 Qxf5
>                                   8. Rxb8+ Ne8 9. Rxe8+ Qf8
>                                   10. Rxf8+ Kxf8 11. Ne6+ Kf7
>                                   12. Nf4 g6
>00:00:02.16 1158kn 09/20/23 ---------------------------------------------------
>00:00:02.83 1589kn 10/22/22 +1.605 6. Kg2 Qa5 7. Rb7 Qxf5
>                                   8. Rxb8+ Ne8 9. Rxe8+ Qf8
>                                   10. Rxf8+ Kxf8 11. Ne6+ Kf7
>                                   12. Nf4 h4 13. Nd5
>00:00:03.80 2054kn 10/22/23 ---------------------------------------------------
>00:00:04.69 2582kn 11/24/24 +1.450 6. Kg2 Qa5 7. Rb7 Qxf5
>                                   8. Rxb8+ Ne8 9. Rxe8+ Qf8
>                                   10. Rxf8+ Kxf8 11. Ne6+ Kf7
>                                   12. Nf4 a5 13. Nxh5 b5
>00:00:25.42   14Mn 11/25/28 +1.650 6. Rc7 Qd6 7. Rxa7 Qd1+
>                                   8. Kg2 h4 9. Qg6 h3+
>                                   10. Nxh3 Ne8 11. Qf7+ Kh7
>                                   12. Ng5+ Kh6 13. Ne4
>00:00:32.52   18Mn 11/26/28 +1.938 6. h4!

depth=10 +2.60 h2h4
Nodes: 15471650 NPS: 180595
Time: 00:01:25.67
depth=10 +2.89 h2h4
Nodes: 18853881 NPS: 181130
Time: 00:01:44.09


>00:02:18.96   71Mn 11/28/28 +3.340 6. h4 Rf8 7. Rxf6 Rxf6
>                                   8. Qh7+ Kf8 9. Qh8+ Ke7
>                                   10. Qxg7+ Kd6 11. Qxf6+ Kd5
>                                   12. Qd8+ Kc4 13. Qg8+ Kb4
>                                   14. Qf8+ Ka4 15. Qe8+ b5
>                                   16. Qxh5



>00:02:19.06   71Mn 11/28/28 ---------------------------------------------------

depth=10 +3.51 h2h4 b8f8 f7f6 f8f6 f5h7 g8f8 h7h8 f8e7 h8g7 e7d8 g7f6 a3e7 f6g6
e7e8 g6g7
Nodes: 33853713 NPS: 182146
Time: 00:03:05.86

Uri



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