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Subject: Re: Warp - Diep, WCCC

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 11:51:18 12/04/02

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On December 04, 2002 at 14:08:02, Peter McKenzie wrote:

how do you plan to win the rook endgame after this Qxa7 Qe4
line?

this is evaluated by diep with 0.200 initially even going
up to 0.5 or something later on. this rook endgame is far
from clear.

Rd3 might not be best move. perhaps it is perhaps not.
Rd2 is also interesting though whites king gets in the
position soon then.

i hope you realize this is my own move the Qe4 move. i love
to get this rook endgame. No problem to keep it a draw for
against puters :)

You  must be fighting again to win a very difficult rook endgame.
How much easier Qf6 in the original position is :)

This where Qf6 is a direct blindfolded win.

7k/p3Qp1p/1p2n3/4nqP1/2P5/2P3R1/P5RP/3r2BK w - -

A direct blindfolded win.

Diep itself opts for other moves which also
complicates matters a lot more after Qxa7? easier draw. but that is harder to
proof. this is a classical case where endgame knowledge
dominates.


Qxa7? (bad move because it blows winning position to a draw)
Diep goes Nf4 there. Now you can again give loads of checks in
all kind of lines. but what move do you play there?

black is combining with 4 pieces against whites poor king :)

for example: Qa7 nf4 qa8 kg7 rf2
Very unclear.

But back to Qxa7 and my own Qe4 move.

Qxa7 Qe4 Qxb6 Nf3 Rxf3 Qxf3 Qf2 Qb7 (i do not understand why
i would take on g5 anyway, typical computer move i go for the
pin).

We can play another 50 moves now, but then it is a draw by 50 move rule :)

Slowly seeing my point?

In all your lines computers capture something and exchange to rook endgame,
which i personally love to play. But much easier for black is to keep
pressure with 3 pieces towards whites king. A full rook is pinned.

Diep evaluates it as white up 2.249 because white is having a bunch of passers
which do not get a rank further i see only 50 shuffling moves in my
mainlines here :)

Please show a line where black simply keeps his queen on the diagonal without
exchanging the queen (except if you get 2 white pawns on the queen side).

Black in my lines can always prevent that. I just see queen shuffling moves
for white. Of course giving a bunch of checks :)

for example

Qxa7 Qe4 Qxb6 Nf3 Rxf3 Qxf3 Qf2 Qb7 Qe2 Rc1 Qd2 Rf1 Qb2 Qc6

What next shuffling move you want to make? :)

there is not even a mating plan with h4-h6 for white. Black covers
with his cool knight on e6 the g7 square.

also if the pawn advances then the computer finally sees that black
can make a draw by perpetual check. If you advance with pawns on the queen
side then i capture them. Easy, only black can win then. Knight is stronger
than bishop obviously.

This is why i had hopes in the game too to win.

c5 saved Warp.



>On December 04, 2002 at 11:35:46, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On December 03, 2002 at 01:47:15, Peter McKenzie wrote:
>snip
>
>[D]7k/p3Qp1p/1p2n3/4nqP1/2P5/2P3R1/P5RP/3r2BK w - -
>
>>So after Qxa7? Qe4 qxb6 Nf3 you play Qb8 Kg7 Rxf3 Qxf3.
>
>Here is the position after Qxa7 Qe4 Qxb6 Nf3
>
>[D]7k/5p1p/1Q2n3/6P1/2P1q3/2P2nR1/P5RP/3r2BK w - -
>
>After a short time, Warp settles on the sensible looking Rxf3 Qxf3 Qf2.  Now I
>think that either Nxg5 or Qxf2 is forced.  Other moves give white alot of
>freedom.
>
>Nxg5 looks critical, white has various attempts but perhaps this is sufficient:
>Nxg5 Qxf3 Nxf3 Rg3 Nxg1 (Rf1!? Kg2 Rxf1 Kxf3) Rxg1
>
>[D]7k/5p1p/8/8/2P5/2P5/P6P/3r2RK b - -
>
>Can white win this endgame?  Maybe.
>A possible line is Rd3 Rc1 Rd2 Ra1 Rc2 a4 Rxc3 a5 Rxc4 a6 Rc8 a7 Ra8 Kg2 and
>white can win I think by penetrating with K on the K-side.
>
>Peter



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