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Subject: Re: To evaluate/test 'positional skills' of chess engines

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 08:25:03 12/07/02

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On December 07, 2002 at 05:04:33, Ingo Lindam wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>concerning the current discussion about testing positional skills
>I like to add the following:
>
>I think to evaluate/test positional skills of an chess engine you don't need to
>have positions without tactics (what I think is impossible, because for
>everything true in a chess position there is a tactical proof if you are just
>able to look deep enough into the tree).
>
>We agree that also in a nearly 'tactical solution free' (within a certain scope)
>position with a one and only best move it could happen that the engine plays the
>right move for the wrong reason.
>
>So why not test the other direction? Assume that you have a true evaluation for
>a position. This true evaluation doesn't need to be exact it can also be: "White
>is atleast equal (or better)." So as long as the engine claims a clear advantage
>for black, it fails the test. If the score corresponds with your own evaluation
>you are ofcourse not able to judge about the engine as long as you not checked
>the reason, why it gives this evaluation. Ofcourse your test positions prefers
>the engine to give the wrong evaluation instantly because of e.g. being a pawn
>up. The deeper the engine goes into the search tree keeps to give the wrong
>evaluation the worse is the positional evaluation of the maschine (at least at
>this special kind of positions). And because you know at least one reason, why
>the position shouldn't be judge that worse as the engine does, you should also
>be able to name some/a positional feature/s the engine doesn't evaluate right.
>
>Giving an example:
>
>[D] r3kb1r/1p1q1ppp/p1n1p3/3pN1B1/3Pb3/1Q2P3/PP2BPPP/2R1K2R b Kkq - 0 1
>
>position after 12.Se5
>
>Analysis by Fritz 7:
>(sorry for the german letters: S=N,L=B,D=Q,T=R and K=K)
>
>12...Sxe5 13.f3 Sg6 14.fxe4 h6 15.Lf4 Sxf4 16.exf4 dxe4
>³ (-0.69) Tiefe: 8/21 00:00:00 151kN
>12...Sxe5 13.dxe5 Lxg2 14.Tg1 Le4 15.f3 h6 16.Lh4 Lf5 17.Kf1
>³ (-0.69) Tiefe: 9/24 00:00:00 400kN
>12...Sxe5 13.f3 Sg6 14.fxe4 h6 15.Lf4 Sxf4 16.exf4 dxe4 17.De3 Lb4+
>µ (-0.78) Tiefe: 10/27 00:00:01 935kN
>12...Sxe5 13.dxe5 Lxg2 14.Tg1 Le4 15.f3 h6 16.Lf4 Lf5 17.Kf1 Tc8 18.Kg2
>µ (-0.75) Tiefe: 11/29 00:00:04 2493kN
>12...Sxe5 13.dxe5 Lxg2 14.Tg1 Le4 15.f3 h6 16.Lf4 Lg6 17.Kf1 Le7 18.Ld3 Lxd3+
>19.Dxd3
>µ (-0.78) Tiefe: 12/31 00:00:10 5134kN
>12...Sxe5 13.dxe5 Lxg2 14.Tg1 Le4 15.f3 h6 16.Lf4 Lf5 17.Kf1 Tc8 18.Txc8+ Dxc8
>µ (-0.84) Tiefe: 13/36 00:00:28 15940kN
>12...Sxe5 13.dxe5 Lxg2 14.Tg1 Le4 15.f3 h6 16.Lf4 Lf5 17.Kf1 Tc8 18.Txc8+ Dxc8
>µ (-0.78) Tiefe: 14/38 00:01:06 39095kN
>12...Sxe5 13.dxe5 Lxg2 14.Tg1 Le4 15.f3 Lf5 16.Kf2 b5 17.Lf4 Tc8 18.Txc8+ Dxc8
>µ (-0.84) Tiefe: 15/42 00:02:47 102460kN
>12...Sxe5 13.dxe5 Lxg2 14.Tg1 Le4 15.Db6 Tc8 16.Txc8+ Dxc8 17.Kd2 d4 18.Dxd4
>Dc2+
>µ (-0.72) Tiefe: 16/46 00:08:08 293734kN
>
>Still at ply 16 the machine evaluates (in my opinion wrongly) an advantage for
>black, although the PV contains th ebest moves for white in the beginning.
>(going one move back in the position you will see that the engine will not play
>Ne5 within 17 plys).
>
>Giving the engine some more (white) moves towards 16. Kd2 the evaluation will
>change into the right direction.
>
>in the game it follows:
>
>12... Nxe5 13. dxe5 Bxg2 14. Rg1
>Be4 15. Qb6 Rc8


The question is if 12.Ne5 was the only best move.
I doubt it

Movei prefers 15...h6

Is there a win for white after  15...h6?

A possible line is 16.Rc7 Qa4 17.a3 hxg5 18.Qxb7 Bb4+ 19.Kf1 0-0 20.Qxb4 Qxb4
21.axb4 and the endgame seems to be equal.

Uri



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