Author: Anatoli
Date: 03:20:14 12/08/02
Go up one level in this thread
On December 06, 2002 at 17:54:15, Stephen Ham wrote: >On December 06, 2002 at 16:24:53, Anatoli Sirota wrote: > >>On December 06, 2002 at 12:56:18, Stephen Ham wrote: >> >>>. For example, I don't use >>>any chess engines to analyse during my games; I find my own moves. However, I >>>use Nimzo 7.32 to blunder check to ensure I'm not hanging material >>>(unknowingly!) before posting the move. After the game, I use Nimzo 7.32 or >>>sometimes Fritz to help me wade through complex tactical positions (yes, even I >>>reach a few of those). So I could have voted None, since I find my own moves >>>during the game. Instead, I voted for Nimzo, since I do use it after my games. >>>So, in spite of the vagueness of the question, I think the poll is significant >>>in that nobody voted for None. Still, I'd like to see a new poll where the >>>question is specific to chess engine use for analytical support DURING the game. >> >> >>Stephen, if you use an engine JUST 'to blunder check', it means you use it to >>help yourself playing by correspondence. And according to ICCF rules, it is >>illegal to use any engine during the game, even if you have a good reason. But >>don't worry, these days everyone from a begginer till the Cor. World Champion >>uses Fritz or any other program to make his life easier. Just open your fritz >>and walk together with it along the games of Tony Oim or Timmerman ! But none of >>the cor. players want to confess it, but no one needs their confession. >>Correspondence chess steped in the new era when a player MUST use an engine, >>otherwise he doesn'e have any chances in these new conditions. I played cor. >>chess for more then 15 years and now I finish my last tournament and quit. Cor. >>chess is dead as a branch of chess. I read your messages and some other players >>at J. Kundsen forum. Also I followed your match with Fritz and Nimzo. It is >>impossible to argue with the visitors of that forum. ALL of THEM use fritz but >>just tell them that someone else use it too!! They will eat you alive. >> >>Regards, >>Anatoli Sirota > >Dear Anatoli, > >I'm sorry to read that you've quit CC. The CC world is all the weaker for your >absence because you are a strong and highly talented player. I'll miss seeing >your games. > >Nonetheless, my friend, you are in error regarding the ICCF rules. It's never >prohibited computer use. Also, it's never prohibited consulting with other >players. Their reasoning is that it's pointless to have rules that can't be >enforced. I don't know if this is sound reasoning, but those are the rules so I >follow them. Prior to playing in the ICCF, I played in the USCF (U.S. Chess >Federation) where there IS a prohibition against computer move generation and >blunder checking and also against outside consultation. I honored those rules >too and trusted my opponents to do likewise. > >Anatoli, I do agree with you you about The Correspondence Chess Message Board. >People have very strong opinions there and one can get eaten alive. Still, you >are correct: most of the strongest players insist that a computer is a mandatory >tool for the highest level of CC. In fact, I don't recall ever reading about any >top-level player claiming NOT to use a computer. Maybe that's why I've plateaued >out at about 2500. Still, using a computer removes the fun for me so I won't do >it. But then, my chess style is more technical than tactical, so it probably >doesn't affect me very much. > >Anatoli, I wish you all the very best in your chess life and hope that you'll >return to CC some day. > >Sincerely, > >Stephen Stephan, thanks for your reply and that nice joke. I know that the whole Correspondence World would cry days and nights, when I will quit chess. But this joke is 100 year old and I would rather expect it from Marius Seretas or Damian, but not from you. I have read your messages and I highly respected you as one of a few writers at that CC Forum who still have a common sense. As for the question, which you had arose here. I thing your first message was more suitable for that CC Forum rather then for this computer group. You would’ve found full understanding and support there. As I mentioned before, I strongly believe that all correspondence players use Fritz/Nimzo/ Hiarcs to analyze their games. Just a year ago it was very dangerous even to mention the names of Fritz or Junior, but time changed. ICCF became more flexible and they even started to advertise CB products at the CC Forum side. But now they found a very nice expression for that – “blunder check”! So, it sounds that cor. players do not analyze their positions together with Fritz anymore, but they only use it afterwards to check their possible blunders ! What a nonsense ! You even found another excuse – after the blunder check you sleep better! From a medical point of view, what can be better then a peaceful sleep. You provided here your way to use your Nimzo, but I don’t believe it. You mention that first you find a move, and only then then you check it with your chess engine ! It is amazing! Do you call it as a blunder check? But if your Nimzo shows to you, that you indeed lose a piece in 2 moves ? So, you turn your computer off , then return back to your chess board and keep looking for another move ?! And you are not curious what Nimzo propose you instead of your blunder? How many times do you have to check your blunders and walk up and down between your chess board and PC ? Stephan, you played against Fritz and Nimzo for a few months. Did you use an engine for your blunder check? After each move you published mountains of analyzes. Were they the results of “blunder check”, or you set up chess pieces on the board and found those 10-15 move lines yourself ? And last thing. You are going to play on by correspondence. You still have just Nimzo 7.32 and this is definitely not enough to compete with the other ICCF players. You have to invest in new Fritz 8. All IM and GM use high speed PC and if you are too honest, you have very little chances in this struggle. Fritz/Tiger/Shredder is getting stronger and stronger and PCs are more and more powerful. It becomes very difficult for a busy person to play cor. chess in these conditions. It is a must to have a good PC + fritz on it, if he wants to reach a sort of success in these new conditions. It is very difficult to sacrifice a pawn for an unclear initiative to say nothing about a piece. Your opponent will switch his “blunder check” on and fritz would show him in 5 seconds how to kill your initiative. We have IG Tunc ( I forgot his surname) from Austria at CC Forum. According to him, he plays dozens of games at the highest level and he found a lot of spare time to arise different discussions. It is impossible for a busy cor. player, who doesn’t use fritz, to have pastime like this ! Each position requires a few hours of hard work and he has dozens of them. So, I check his games together with fritz . Try, Stephan, you will have a lot of fun ! Good luck in your cor. career and I reckon it is too early for the whole world to cry after you. A.S.
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