Author: Sune Larsson
Date: 23:13:52 12/08/02
Go up one level in this thread
On December 08, 2002 at 19:42:31, Bob Durrett wrote:
>On December 08, 2002 at 18:35:12, Sune Larsson wrote:
>
>>On December 08, 2002 at 08:34:16, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I am interested in knowing whether or not modern chess engines recognize
>>>advantages of these types.
>>>
>>>(1) If the White side has a substantial space advantage, but nothing else, will
>>>the chess engine evaluate the positions with that advantage and give it a high
>>>score?
>>>
>>>(2) If the White side has a substantial time (or development) advantage, but
>>>nothing else, will the chess engine evaluate the positions with that advantage
>>>and give it a high score?
>>>
>>>(3) If the White side has a substantial pawn structure advantage, but nothing
>>>else, will the chess engine evaluate the positions with that advantage and give
>>>it a high score?
>>>
>>>(4) If the White side has a substantial material advantage, but nothing else,
>>>will the chess engine evaluate the positions with that advantage and give it a
>>>high score?
>>>
>>>(5) If the White side has a substantial initiative advantage, but nothing else,
>>>will the chess engine evaluate the positions with that advantage and give it a
>>>high score?
>>>
>>>Bob D.
>>
>>
>> Your idea is interesting. Chessplayers often speak about *space* advantage.
>> And this concept is closely linked to *mobility*. Just look at the position
>> after 1.e4 d6 2.d4 e6 - and study the bishops. White has an advantage in space
>> and has more squares, for his bishops, at his disposal.
>> If you give me *time* odds of four moves - let's say 1.e4 2.d4 3.Nf3 4.Nc3,
>> you also give me an advantage in *space* and *mobility*. Another central
>> concept is *activity*. Players are willing to give up material to create
>> "nice activity", which might be linked to space + mobility + initiative.
>> So...;-)
>>
>> /s
>
>I have now looked at several books containing chapters discussing "space
>advantage." These same books talk about other advantages. I guess the game of
>chess is a bit more complex than I, as a chess amateur, had imagined.
>
>We need to find a way to make this relevant to chess software, since this is a
>computer chess bulletin board.
>
>Maybe the way computer chess engines work somehow takes care of positions that
>contain, among other things, "positional advantages/disadvantages." If these
>advantages/disadvantages are always accompanied by other
>advantages/disadvantages, including tactical, then the "purely positional
>position" may not exist in chess. : (
>
>It MAY be possible to find chess positions containing multiple
>advantages/disadvantages but where the space advantage/disadvantage dominates,
>i.e. determines the best move from that position. For example, the idea that
>it might be best to further restrict the choices of the opponent might dictate
>choice of a move that accomplishes that. In that case, the space advantage
>would be the main consideration in selection of the move.
>
>Your link of "space advantage" to "mobility" may mean that a chess engine that
>evaluates piece mobility [among other things] would indirectly evaluate space
>advantage as well. Restricted pieces have less mobility. If all on one side's
>pieces have reduced mobility, then the other side may be said to have a space
>advantage. Interesting.
>
>Do chess engines evaluate "activity"?
>
>Bob D.
I think "activity", just like "pressure", are more like central concepts
for the human master. Junior is known to give up material in cramped positions,
to free the pieces. Giving material to gain mobility. Previously I have posted
a lot of positions, like the one below, and some of them might be relevant
here. (I'm off to work now, so a bit short of time...)
[D]6k1/2p3np/1p1p2p1/3P4/1PPK1R2/6PB/7P/4r3 w - - 0 1
[Event "Clearing the Path"]
[Site "Jerusalem"]
[Date "1985.03.06"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Gelfer"]
[Black "Manievich"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "6k1/2p3np/1p1p2p1/3P4/1PPK1R2/6PB/7P/4r3 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "43"]
[EventDate "1985.??.??"]
{This is Gelfer-Manievich, Jerusalem 1985. The theme is about central
supremacy and active king in the endgame. The penetration of the king into the
enemy camp is many times decisive and often worth a pawn. Gelfer bought a
ticket for his king to the holy land, in a very instructive way: 1.Be6+!
Nxe6 2.dxe6 Rxe6 [The sacrifice has cleared a path for the white king. 2.-c6
wouldn't do, owing to 3.b5!] 3.Kd5 Re7 4.Kc6 Kg7 5.Rf2 Re4 6.Rc2 Re7 7.b5 Kf6
8.Ra2 Re4 9.Kxc7 Rxc4+ 10.Kxb6 d5 11.Ka7 d4 12.b6 Ke5 13.b7 Rb4 14.b8Q+ Rxb8
15.Kxb8 d3 16.Kc7 Ke4 17.Kd6 Ke3 18.Ke5 d2 19.Ra1 Ke2 59.Kf6 d1Q 60.Rxd1 Kxd1
61.Kg7 1-0 Test: The move 1.Be6+! should give a high +score for white. If a
program plays this move it recognizes the value of entering into the enemy
camp with the king. [Don't do that in the middlegame]} 1. Be6+ Nxe6+ 2. dxe6
Rxe6 3. Kd5 Re7 4. Kc6 Kg7 5. Rf2 Re4 6. Rc2 Re7 7. b5 Kf6 8. Ra2 Re4 9. Kxc7
Rxc4+ 10. Kxb6 d5 11. Ka7 d4 12. b6 Ke5 13. b7 Rb4 14. b8=Q+ Rxb8 15. Kxb8 d3
16. Kc7 Ke4 17. Kd6 Ke3 18. Ke5 d2 19. Ra1 Ke2 20. Kf6 d1=Q 21. Rxd1 Kxd1 22.
Kg7 1-0
/s
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.