Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 07:53:55 12/10/02
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On December 10, 2002 at 01:03:48, Luis Smith wrote: >On December 09, 2002 at 12:51:26, Nicolas GUIBERT wrote: > >>On December 09, 2002 at 12:45:51, Timothy J. Frohlick wrote: >> >>>Nicolas, >>> >>>Excellent world-class site. When your program is commercially available let us >>>know. >>> >>>TJF >> >>Thank you very much. >> >>I'll let you know. >> >>I strongly suggest you to subscribe to the newsletter. That's the best way to be >>informed quickly. > >Draughts and checkers=same things correct? So then where is cake and Chinook..? > Or is that a completly different game? Do not compare a kids game (chinook playing 8x8 checkers which you can completely search till the end) with draughts please :) Yes draughts is another word for 10x10 international checkers (polish rules). You play it at 50 squares (checkers only 32) and the drawing chances are far higher than in checkers in the endgame. In the middlegame the evaluation of a queen is far more difficult than in checkers too. You cannot compare the 2 games at all. Chinook i know it searched 20 ply and didn't beat Tinsley when he was sick. With Napoleon (4th this blitz tournament) i search nearly 20 ply too. Single cpu even. This is at a 50 square board, versus draughts at a 32 board. Now we must not forget what time this huge effort from Schaeffer was done. Schaeffer had no serious competition and never played for money against other programs. He had to invent quicker ways to generate EGTBs and he had to figure out how in a game which got played near perfect by Tinsley, how he could also reach near perfect play with Chinook. So comparing chinook with games like chess or draughts is not fair at all. Nowadays professional chessprogrammers know way more about hashtables and search (and i don't mean forward pruning mechanisms here nor nullmove, because all that you cannot use in checkers nor draughts) than in these years. But for sure is that version 1.0 of a checkers program from me would outsearch chinook by a large margin. Of course i would need the EGTBs generated by Schaeffer to get to not lose every game in the endgame :) Yet here is the good news for Schaeffer: i don't get paid to make a 8x8 checkers program right now and for the time being he is pretty safe therefore, because it's for sure others don't get paid either for that. Some enthusiastic fans perhaps have a checkers program but those are in the same league like most of the draughts program (knowing nothing from hash or search). Best regards, Vincent
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