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Subject: Re: Positional Test(analysis by yace only material)

Author: Bob Durrett

Date: 16:20:46 12/10/02

Go up one level in this thread


On December 10, 2002 at 18:12:54, Laurence Chen wrote:

>On December 10, 2002 at 17:50:41, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On December 10, 2002 at 17:43:35, Ingo Lindam wrote:
>>
>>>On December 10, 2002 at 17:04:07, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>Yace only material with the following values claims that it is tactics.
>>>>pawn=0.8
>>>>knigh=3.4
>>>>bishop=3.5
>>>>rook=5
>>>>queen=10.01
>>>>
>>>>New position
>>>>[D]rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/3P4/2PNPP2/P1NBB2P/1P3QP1/3R1RK1 w kq - 0 1
>>>>
>>>>Analysis by yace_mo:
>>>>
>>>>1.d6 exd6
>>>>  µ  (-0.80)   Depth: 1   00:00:05
>>>>1.f5
>>>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 1   00:00:05
>>>>1.f5 Nh6
>>>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 2   00:00:05
>>>>1.f5 Nh6 2.Qd2
>>>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 3   00:00:05
>>>>1.f5 Nh6 2.Qd2 a5
>>>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 4   00:00:05
>>>>1.f5 Nh6 2.Qd2 a5 3.Ndb5
>>>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 5   00:00:05  4kN
>>>>1.f5 Nh6 2.Qd2 a5 3.Ndb5 b6
>>>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 6   00:00:05  13kN
>>>>1.f5 Nh6 2.Qd2 a5 3.Ndb5 b6 4.Bf2
>>>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 7   00:00:06  37kN
>>>>1.f5 Nh6 2.Qd2 a5 3.Ndb5 b6 4.Bf2 g6
>>>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 8   00:00:06  132kN
>>>>1.f5 Nh6 2.Qd2 a5 3.Ndb5 b6 4.Bf2 g6 5.fxg6
>>>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 9   00:00:06  438kN
>>>>1.f5 Nh6 2.Qd2 a5 3.Ndb5 b6 4.Bf2 g6 5.fxg6 hxg6
>>>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 10   00:00:07  934kN
>>>>1.f5 Nh6 2.Qd2 a5 3.Ndb5 b6 4.Bf2 g6 5.fxg6 hxg6 6.Be2 d6
>>>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 11   00:00:11  3609kN
>>>>1.f5 d6 2.Be2 Nf6 3.e5 dxe5 4.Ne6 fxe6 5.dxe6 Nbd7 6.exd7+ Bxd7 7.Bxa7 Kf7
>>>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 12   00:00:57  28599kN
>>>>1.e5 b6 2.e6 fxe6 3.dxe6 dxe6 4.Nf3 Nd7 5.Qg3 Nh6 6.Bg6+ hxg6 7.Qxg6+ Nf7 8.Ng5
>>>>Nde5 9.Rxd8+ Kxd8
>>>>  =  (0.01)   Depth: 12   00:02:14  71742kN
>>>>1.e5 b6 2.e6 Nh6 3.exf7+ Nxf7 4.Qc2 g6 5.Qa4 Bb7 6.Ne6 Qc8 7.Nxf8
>>>>  =  (0.10)   Depth: 12   00:02:54  94557kN
>>>>1.e5 b6 2.e6 Nh6 3.f5 Bb7 4.Bxh6 gxh6 5.exf7+ Kxf7 6.Ne6 Qc8 7.f6 dxe6 8.fxe7+
>>>>Ke8 9.exf8Q+ Kd7
>>>>  ²  (0.50)   Depth: 13   00:05:46  193739kN
>>>>1.e5 b6 2.e6 Nh6 3.f5 c5 4.dxc6 dxc6 5.exf7+
>>>>  ±  (0.80)   Depth: 13   00:09:33  324089kN
>>>>
>>>>(blass, tel-aviv 11.12.2002)
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>It shouldn't be surprising that a position offering a positional advantage
>>>contains also tactical possibilities... and also a tactical proof of the
>>>advantage if one is just able to look deep enough into the position/searchtree
>>>to find that proof, should it?
>>>
>>>I guess it doesn't surprise you, Uri.
>>>
>>>Internette Gruesse,
>>>Ingo
>>
>>Of course it does not surprise me
>>
>>I expected this and I did the analysis to contradict the claim that the position
>>has no tactics
>>
>>Yace kept the advantage also ar depth 14
>>
>>1.e5 c6 2.dxc6 bxc6 3.Be4 Bb7 4.Ndb5 f5 5.exf6 Nxf6 6.Bf3 g6 7.Nxa7 d5 8.cxd5
>>cxd5
>>  ±  (0.80)   Depth: 14   00:25:12  865117kN
>>
>>I guess that longer analysis can prove that white wins more material.
>>
>>Uri
>I believe that the person who was making the posts about Space advantage failed
>to understand that chess is 95% tactics and any temporary positional advantages,
>such as Space, will disappear if not converted into more permanent positional
>advantage.

Maybe what is needed is for someone to make up a position which contains one of
those "more permanent positional advantages."  What would such a position look
like????????  What are the "more permanent positional advantages," anyway?

The question would then be whether or not the engines correctly evaluated such
"more permanent positional advantages."

Bob D.


>
>Laurence



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