Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Lets remember even Kramnik missed this idea in the game :) Cheers~

Author: robert flesher

Date: 20:17:38 12/10/02

Go up one level in this thread


On December 10, 2002 at 19:55:48, Ricardo Gibert wrote:

>On December 10, 2002 at 18:53:21, Mike S. wrote:
>
>>Maybe it should be called "The Mig Fortress" better, because it'S Mig's
>>comprehensive analysis of game no. 6 of the Bahrain match which ends with this
>>position:
>>
>>[D]8/5k1p/5q2/8/1R6/6P1/5P2/6K1 b - - 0 45
>>
>>White's rook can go to f4 or h4, and "Black has no way through the fortress."
>>
>>http://www.chessbase.com/images2/2002/bahrain/games/mig6.htm (see after the last
>>move on the bottom of the page)
>>
>>I think the fortress idea is something especially difficult for chess programs,
>>because it's very "general", IOW not related to a special pattern or material
>>balance.
>
>
>There are a number of abilities that are closely associated with chess mastery,
>but nevertheless have very little or no effect on playing strength overall.
>Recognizing such fortresses is one of them.
>
>Don't get me wrong. I *do* think the topic is an interesting one. However, such
>positions are rare and detection would be too costly. Perhaps limiting detection
>to the root position would be okay, but that would not add to playing strength.
>It would only help the program to offer/accept draws in a more timely fashion.
>
>
>>
>>I wonder if an idea from the incomplete tbs. problem could be used to detect
>>fortresses: With the pawn just before the promotion, but the tablebases for the
>>resulting material missing, the idea was like: "If it's # in 14, but one move
>>later *not* # in 13 or less, then there must be something wrong and I have to
>>promote the pawn (even if the eval is less than mate then, at first)."
>>
>>The situation is somewhat similar in a fortress position, when one side has a
>>more or less huge material advantage (which would normally be capable of
>>winning), but can't make any significant progress for a long series of moves.
>>
>>Testing such a detection would probably require to have the engine actually play
>>some f moves, so the engine could recognise that there is no progress...
>>Although, with usual search depths of ~12 or more plies (+ extensions), maybe
>>that is sufficient for the idea too.
>>
>>Are there engines known to have a fortress detection?
>>
>>Regards,
>>M.Scheidl



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.