Author: Maurizio De Leo
Date: 06:08:25 12/12/02
Go up one level in this thread
You seem to not want to understand what we are talking about. The question was
>>>>WESTERN CHESS PROGRAMS ARE GM-STRENGTH.ARE GO PROGRAMS EQUALLY CAPABLE?
And you answer was :
>>>If similar effort would have been put in go like it has been in chess,
>>>my answer would be YES.
You also write :
>The difference is that a single person will be capable of writing a
>go program within a year or 2 that can easily challenge the world top.
>In my case if i would be busy a full year fulltime, i would surely,
>even without help of a strong go player, be capable of challenging the
>go-top.
I don't doubt your programming skill, but the question wasn't if you can
challenge the top computer-go program of today (which are pathetically weak). It
was if you can make a go program that is Gm (= professional) strenght. And the
answer is NO. Not with today hardware, not with today technique.
I showed you. You claim that the branching factor of go can be reduced to 10
ply. Also if that is true, which I doubt, there is a HUGE difference between
10^x and 4^x !
Down here there is some mumbling about the current computer-go top, which isn't
on the topic
>However it is impossible to write a chessprogram within 1 year that can
>challenge the world top computerchess. *impossible*. Even the best
>go programmer will be capable of telling you why.
>They are just busy figuring out knowledge from chessprogrammers and
>which is known in the computerchess world for years, in order to improve
>their own go program.
>They should figure out things like *how* do some of the oldy chessprograms
>do their selective search?
>>Ok. So let's analyze. For 6 ply 10^6 moves in Go and 4^6 = 4096 in Diep (or do
>>you have a branching factor over 4 ?). It seems that you have to squeeze some
>>three order of magnitude from optimization.
>
>Every beginner can get a better b.f. than the top go programs, but
>you won't be capable of writing a correctly searching chess program that
>can challenge the strong chess programs b.f.
So what ? Read again the starting question of the topic. I wrote it in bold, at
the top of the message.Let's assume "every beginner can get a better b.f than
the top go programs",as you say.Anyway there is no chance to write a GM strenght
go playing program, and that is the point. If top go program have branching
factor of 12 and you claim to achieve 10 or 8, this still will leave you WAY
behind chess programs.
After this there are some question which you didn't answer at all. I numbered
them, so you can more easily answer.
>>>Add to that, that there is no GM title in GO.
>>
>> (1) So ? What this mean ? (1)
>>There is no "professional" title in Chess. There is no "Davis Cup" in soccer.
>>And so on with nonsense statements.
>>>Suppose you let a small FM play against a strong chessprogram at a level
>>>of a full day for the entire game.
>>>Of course the FM will win.
>>
>>What ?
>>Usually go players have 6/8 hours for the game which isn't far to 2h/40+2h/40
>>+30min of top chess. Anyway you are a strong Fide Master, almost
>>international master.
(2) Would you mind beating Deep Fritz 7 by 10-0 (i would accept also 9-1) ?
Maybe time can be 10 hour for player for the game ? Or 12 hour, as you
want. (2)
Maurizio
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