Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 16:10:07 12/12/02
Go up one level in this thread
On December 12, 2002 at 15:40:35, Maurizio De Leo wrote: >On December 12, 2002 at 09:20:59, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>On December 12, 2002 at 09:08:25, Maurizio De Leo wrote: >> >>>You seem to not want to understand what we are talking about. The question was >>> >>>>>>>WESTERN CHESS PROGRAMS ARE GM-STRENGTH.ARE GO PROGRAMS EQUALLY CAPABLE? >>> >>>And you answer was : >>> >>>>>>If similar effort would have been put in go like it has been in chess, >>>>>>my answer would be YES. >>> >>>You also write : >>> >>>>The difference is that a single person will be capable of writing a >>>>go program within a year or 2 that can easily challenge the world top. >>>>In my case if i would be busy a full year fulltime, i would surely, >>>>even without help of a strong go player, be capable of challenging the >>>>go-top. >>> >>>I don't doubt your programming skill, but the question wasn't if you can >>>challenge the top computer-go program of today (which are pathetically weak). It >>>was if you can make a go program that is Gm (= professional) strenght. And the >>>answer is NO. Not with today hardware, not with today technique. >>>I showed you. You claim that the branching factor of go can be reduced to 10 >>>ply. Also if that is true, which I doubt, there is a HUGE difference between >>>10^x and 4^x ! >> >>You showed nothing. > >I showed that you contraddict yourself. I didn't proof anything of course. That >is something that only you can do without data :-) >You just said "go has a b.f. of 10" and "it is possible to make GM strenght go >program with standard chess techniques". This seem contraddiction to me Not to mention the branching factor of "10". That is a "tad" understated, as usual... > >>You just show you know nothing how far the chess programming world is. >>You didn't investigate any go program i bet. >>Yes i wrote within a few hours a go program a few year ago. >>With that thing i could already search 6 ply at very old >>hardware. No problem. > >Nice showing off. However I don't care how good a programmer you are. The >question was > >WESTERN CHESS PROGRAMS ARE GM-STRENGTH.ARE GO PROGRAMS EQUALLY CAPABLE? > >And you answer was : >If similar effort would have been put in go like it has been in chess, >my answer would be YES. > >And having made a go-program in the past isn't on topic unless of course it was >Gm-strengt. But I guess I can easily give a couple of stones of advantage to >your program, and I'm a just a weak go player. > >>The main problems for GO is: >> - you can't sell your stuff easily, because the >> vaste majority of buyers live in Japan (china is not >> relevant, they earn too little to afford a go program; so >> they copy it i guess). >> The Japanese market is very closed > >If you can make a 1/2 dan go program (candidate master strenght) there would be >no problem of closed market. You would sell thousands of copies of it, because >it would be something like 600 elo stronger than the world top. Anyway I >seriously doubt you can do it. > >>You see a factor 60 is pretty much difference in speed. > >And I already told you that for overcoming a 10 to 4 ratio in branching factor >you should really do MORE than that. > >>It is a simple matter of amateuristic programming, but all computerchess >>programmers exactly know what causes it. Somehow in the computergo >>mailing list they do not. > >Apart for your usual showing off, I noticed that you didn't respond to any of my >two questions.Expecially on the second, I read in another topic that you have a >few thousands to bet, so maybe this is a good occasion :-) > > >>>>>>Add to that, that there is no GM title in GO. > >(1) So ? What this mean ? (1) >There is no "professional" title in Chess. There is no "Davis Cup" in soccer. > > >>>>>>Suppose you let a small FM play against a strong chessprogram at a level >>>>>>of a full day for the entire game. >>>>>>Of course the FM will win. >>>>> >>>>>What ? >>>>>Usually go players have 6/8 hours for the game which isn't far to 2h/40+2h/40 >>>>>+30min of top chess. Anyway you are a strong Fide Master, almost >>>>>international master. >>> > >(2) Would you mind beating Deep Fritz 7 by 10-0 (i would accept also 9-1) ? > Maybe time can be 10 hour for player for the game ? Or 12 hour, as you > want. (2) > > >Maurizio
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.