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Subject: Re: Label the Craftys on ICC

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 12:06:38 09/18/98

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On September 18, 1998 at 00:18:23, Serge Desmarais wrote:

>On September 18, 1998 at 00:07:53, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 17, 1998 at 18:46:02, Serge Desmarais wrote:
>>
>>>On September 17, 1998 at 09:05:04, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 17, 1998 at 02:05:43, Jeff Anderson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I suppose I can understand where you are coming from as the developer.  I would
>>>>>like to point out that Mr. Moreland allows Ferret to play unrated games against
>>>>>anyone, and he is having no problem finding strong opponenets to play for his
>>>>>creation.  In fact the last 20 games in its history are against above 2600
>>>>>players.
>>>>>Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I choose to not play unrated, to try to make the games "serious".  Since most
>>>>there treasure rating points, rated games tend to be more serious games.  Also,
>>>>I have seen "scams" where someone "fishes" by playing unrated games until they
>>>>find a way to force a program to follow a bad book line, then they will play a
>>>>rated game and win.  Also there is a problem with playing rated as white, then
>>>>an unrated when you get black, then rated with white, etc...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Crafty would still learn after an unrated game?
>>>
>>>
>>>Serge Desmarais
>>>
>>>
>>
>>it would depend.  IE the most common way this used to happen was a guest
>>would play it many games to fish around for a bad opening, then the guy
>>would log on as a normal user and play that line.  I let the rating of
>>the opponent factor into the learning curve, and a guest would always get
>>"0"...
>>
>
>Ah! That is clever! I would not have thought about it! I too, when I make Fritz
>5 to play and it fights against a weak player who accepted the seek, I don't
>kake it learn from these games. Anyway, at "Infinite time" (99 plies depth to
>reach) and force move, it never learn anything by itself. So, I have to save the
>game in a newly created database (just for ONE game) and then make it learn from
>it. But I don't see the point of doing all this "fishing" just to win a rated
>game as a regular player? These days, I have mostly played as myself and not
>with the computer account. And I never play the computers rated above 2200,
>because I like to stand a chance of winning, even if small!
>
>
>
>>But that's not the problem...  play it unrated, find a good position, then
>>blunder.  That defeats the learning by actually encouraging it to follow that
>>line again (I handle this by reducing the learned result significantly, but
>>as you can see, it won't learn anything bad if you pop it out of book,
>>decide you like the position, then intentionally blunder so that it won't
>>realize that the position was bad...
>>
>>Humans are clever animals.  Some studied my "mercilous attack" code and
>>found novel ways to take advantage of it, in fact..  A never-ending battle
>>of wits, generally, but *only* when you operate "automated" on the servers.
>>Manual operation eliminates the problems...
>>
>>But that's part of the challenge... get it right and it makes you feel
>>like you've accomplished something important...
>>
>>
>>
>
>The way you puts it, it is like some players are seeing a win against Crafty as
>the goal of their life or a personnal vendetta! He he he...
>
>
>


probably accurate, in fact.  :)

IE if you finger enough GM/IM players on ICC, you will find a couple that
have a "crafty must die!" note in their finger notes.  :)

Also, what else could make a GM sit down and play 24 hours non-stop at bullet?
The record that I have is 157 straight bullet games by Roman, a couple of years
ago.  He started at about 6am one morning, and finished about 8am the *next*
morning.  *no* stops...  No breaks...  *all* bullet.  I asked him about it the
next time we talked, his response?  "I don't know what I was doing there."

BTW his rating went down over 300 points in the process.  :)

Probably the same mental process that makes a gambler do "just one more bet,
I know it is my time to win."  :)




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