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Subject: Re: A game like a Dream !

Author: Mark Young

Date: 07:40:16 12/14/02

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On December 14, 2002 at 08:13:10, Drexel,Michael wrote:

>On December 14, 2002 at 00:57:30, Mark Young wrote:
>
>>On December 14, 2002 at 00:10:39, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>
>>>On December 13, 2002 at 22:33:50, Mark Young wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>What is the point of this line? Is not white lost with best play? Can you win
>>>>with white if you play at 3 min a move or even at Game 30' on fast computer, not
>>>>the out of date P 600 that was used?
>>>
>>>Yes, white is lost in nearly every variation.
>>>The point is: Fritz 8 has to play the variation with highest score. He sees no
>>>danger because mating threats are behind his horizon.
>>
>>What value is this...dumbing down a computer program so someone can post a
>>"Dream game" seems silly. Are we going to be wow'ed by this....I think not.
>>
>>If Fritz 8 plays this way with standard time controls this would have some
>>value.
>>
>>This is nothing more then a time blunder by Fritz 8 because of the fast time
>>control and the very slow computer that was used, not a flaw in the program.
>>
>>Can anyone produce a game where Fritz 8 plays this way at 3 mins. a move.
>>
>I dont agree.
>1. An Athlon XP2000+ running at full speed is not a slow computer. Of course
>there are faster comps available now for average home users.
>2. A top program should be able to win after Bf7+ even with 1+1 min time
>control. The position is completly lost for white.
>3. I produced a game where Fritz 8 plays this way at 5+2 min (Fischer mode) for
>the game. Im sure that it is possible to find other examples at 3 min a move but
>probably very time consuming.
>4. Dont forget. Even the top-programmers accept blitz games today. There had
>been a World Blitz Championship taken place this year, won by Shredder.

I don't accept Blitz chess as "Real Chess". It is not the same thing as slow
chess.

I don't think many programmers are going to fundamentally change the way they
program chess programs, because the above example is not a "real problem".



>
>As long as computers play chess without artificial intellligence, it will be in
>principle possible to beat computers this way. Nowadays it is not easy to
>exploit this weaknesses due to the horizon-effect. King saftey has much improved
>during the last years. You have to offer the programs high material advantages.
>Most of the known examples are constructed. You have to try out hundreds of
>stupid (for humans) variations with Fritz analysing in background to find a new
>one.


This is my point....some people act as if they are showing us something. They
are not doing this over the board or in a real game. It is a made up game, they
play crazy lines at very fast time controls until they work out a win. Then then
come onto CCC and present us with bull shit as if they played this over the
board and out of the blue, and tell us it a "dream game". Any jack ass can do
this, and it is a waste of space.



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