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Subject: Re: Fritz problems in rook/pawn ending

Author: Sune Larsson

Date: 10:08:25 12/14/02

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On December 14, 2002 at 12:51:26, Kurt Utzinger wrote:

>On December 14, 2002 at 10:42:05, Sune Larsson wrote:
>
>>On December 14, 2002 at 06:51:19, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>
>>>A most interesting position that quite a lot of engines are unable to assess
>>>correctly. For me however, the more important question is if this is a good
>>>example because it demonstrates an exception of the rule in this kind of
>>>position that Black should not exchange pieces. And for this reason it may be
>>>not worth for a programmer to change anything.
>>>Kurt
>>>
>>>Neue Partie
>>>[D]8/1pp5/p1p3pp/5k2/5P1P/5KP1/PPP1R3/5r2 w - - 0 1
>>>
>>>Analysis by Fritz 8: (P4 1.8/32 MB hash)
>>>
>>>1.Tf2 Tg1 2.a4 g5 3.fxg5 hxg5 4.Th2 g4+ 5.Kf2 Tc1 6.Ke3 Tg1 7.Kf2
>>>  ²  (0.31)   Tiefe: 7/17   00:00:00  25kN
>>>  =  (0.00)   Tiefe: 16/36   00:02:35  90884kN, tb=2
>>>1.Kg2!
>>>  =  (0.03)   Tiefe: 16/40   00:03:21  119101kN, tb=2
>>>  =  (0.03)   Tiefe: 16/40   00:03:21  119101kN, tb=2
>>
>>
>> Hi Kurt,
>>
>> What are your results with hash 64, 128 and ev. 256?
>> Looks like the figures can differ quite a bit...
>> I cannot reproduce your results with hash 32, so I guess
>> I have to check my settings/parameters etc.
>>
>> /s
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>(Utzinger, MyTown 14.12.2002)
>>>*******************************************************************************************
>>>Neue Partie
>>>8/1pp5/p1p3pp/5k2/5P1P/5KP1/PPP1R3/5r2 w - - 0 1
>>>
>>>Analysis by Chess Tiger 14.0:
>>>
>>>1.Tf2 Txf2+ 2.Kxf2 Ke4 3.b4 b6 4.a3 a5 5.bxa5 bxa5 6.Ke2 c5 7.Kf2 c4 8.c3 c5
>>>9.Ke2 a4 10.Kd2
>>>  =  (-0.12)   Tiefe: 10   00:00:00  170kN
>>>  =  (-0.08)   Tiefe: 16   00:03:03  68668kN
>>>
>>>(Utzinger, MyTown 14.12.2002)
>>>********************************************************************************************
>>>Neue Partie
>>>8/1pp5/p1p3pp/5k2/5P1P/5KP1/PPP1R3/5r2 w - - 0 1
>>>
>>>Analysis by Hiarcs 8:
>>>
>>>1.Kg2 Td1 2.Te5+ Kg4
>>>  ²  (0.26)   Tiefe: 1   00:00:00
>>>  =  (0.16)   Tiefe: 2/5   00:00:00
>>>1.Tf2 Txf2+ 2.Kxf2 Ke4 3.c3 c5 4.b3 b5 5.b4 h5 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Kf3
>>>  =  (0.19)   Tiefe: 2/9   00:00:00
>>>  =  (0.05)   Tiefe: 11/26   00:00:04  935kN
>>>1.Kg2 Td1 2.Kh3 Th1+ 3.Kg2 Td1 4.Tf2
>>>  =  (0.09)   Tiefe: 11/26   00:00:08  1664kN
>>>  =  (0.07)   Tiefe: 15/34   00:03:41  46562kN
>>>
>>>(Utzinger, MyTown 14.12.2002)
>>>********************************************************************************************
>>>Neue Partie
>>>8/1pp5/p1p3pp/5k2/5P1P/5KP1/PPP1R3/5r2 w - - 0 1
>>>
>>>Analysis by Junior 7:
>>>
>>>1.Kg2 Td1 2.Te7
>>>  =  (0.05)   Tiefe: 3   00:00:00
>>>  =  (0.05)   Tiefe: 3   00:00:00
>>>1.Ke3 Kg4 2.Tg2 Tf3+ 3.Kd4 Txg3 4.Txg3+ Kxg3
>>>  =  (0.18)   Tiefe: 3   00:00:00
>>>  ³  (-0.59)   Tiefe: 6   00:00:00  5kN
>>>1.Kg2 Td1 2.Kf3
>>>  =  (0.02)   Tiefe: 6   00:00:00  6kN
>>>  =  (0.00)   Tiefe: 23   00:05:15  297987kN, tb=15
>>>
>>>(Utzinger, MyTown 14.12.2002)
>>>********************************************************************************************
>>>Neue Partie
>>>8/1pp5/p1p3pp/5k2/5P1P/5KP1/PPP1R3/5r2 w - - 0 1
>>>
>>>Analysis by Nimzo 7.32:
>>>
>>>1.Tf2
>>>  ³  (-0.26)   Tiefe: 1/11   00:00:00
>>>1.Ke3 Kg4 2.Tf2
>>>  =  (0.08)   Tiefe: 1/11   00:00:00
>>>  =  (-0.02)   Tiefe: 3/14   00:00:00
>>>1.Kg2 Ta1 2.a3 Tb1 3.b3 Kg4 4.Te7 Tc1
>>>  =  (0.07)   Tiefe: 3/14   00:00:00
>>>  =  (0.08)   Tiefe: 8/22   00:00:00
>>>1.Tf2 Txf2+ 2.Kxf2 Ke4 3.b3 h5 4.a3 a5 5.c4 Kf5
>>>  =  (0.09)   Tiefe: 8/22   00:00:00
>>>  =  (-0.20)   Tiefe: 9/23   00:00:00
>>>1.Kg2 Ta1 2.a3 Ta2 3.c3 Ta1 4.Te5+ Kg4 5.Te6 Kf5 6.Te2
>>>  =  (-0.19)   Tiefe: 9/23   00:00:00
>>>  =  (0.04)   Tiefe: 15/32   00:01:05  54994kN
>>>
>>>(Utzinger, MyTown 14.12.2002)
>>>********************************************************************************************
>
>Below the results of Fritz8 with differenct hashtable sizes:
>
>New game
>8/1pp5/p1p3pp/5k2/5P1P/5KP1/PPP1R3/5r2 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Fritz 8: (P4 1.8/64 MB hash, Frit7-GUI)
>
>1.Rf2 Rg1 2.Rd2 Rf1+ 3.Kg2 Rb1 4.b3 g5 5.fxg5 hxg5 6.hxg5 Kxg5 7.a3 b6 8.Re2 Rd1
>9.Re5+
>  ²  (0.31)   Depth: 7/17   00:00:00  25kN
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 16/36   00:02:36  91944kN
>1.Kg2!
>  =  (0.03)   Depth: 16/36   00:03:34  126470kN
>  =  (0.03)   Depth: 16/36   00:03:34  126470kN
>
>(Utzinger, MyTown 14.12.2002)
>********************************************************************************************
>New game
>8/1pp5/p1p3pp/5k2/5P1P/5KP1/PPP1R3/5r2 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Fritz 8: (P4 1.8/128 MB hash, Fritz7-GUI)
>
>1.Rf2 Rg1 2.Rd2 Rf1+ 3.Kg2 Rb1 4.b3 g5 5.fxg5 hxg5 6.hxg5 Kxg5 7.Re2 Ra1 8.c3
>Kg4 9.Kf2
>  ²  (0.31)   Depth: 7/17   00:00:00  25kN
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 16/39   00:02:49  98706kN
>1.Kg2!
>  =  (0.03)   Depth: 16/39   00:03:14  114323kN
>  =  (0.03)   Depth: 16/39   00:03:14  114323kN
>
>(Utzinger, MyTown 14.12.2002)
>********************************************************************************************
>New game
>8/1pp5/p1p3pp/5k2/5P1P/5KP1/PPP1R3/5r2 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Fritz 8: (P4 1.8/256 MB hash, Fritz7-GUI)
>
>1.Rf2 Rg1 2.a4 c5 3.Rd2 Rf1+ 4.Kg2 Rb1 5.b3 Kg4 6.Re2 c4 7.bxc4 Ra1 8.Re6 Rxa4
>  ²  (0.31)   Depth: 7/17   00:00:00  25kN
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 16/38   00:02:30  85214kN
>1.Kg2 Rd1 2.Rf2 Kf6 3.Kf3 c5 4.Re2 c4
>  =  (0.03)   Depth: 16/42   00:03:32  120976kN
>  =  (0.03)   Depth: 17/39   00:06:17  215020kN
>
>(Utzinger, MyTown 14.12.2002)
>********************************************************************************************
>
>Kurt


 Ah, now I see. We were actually analysing different positions...
 I chose the one from F8-Aristarch - see my first post with diagram.
 In that game a3 was already played in the initial position.
 I read from your analysis that you must have chosen the position
 from F8-Shredder for your tests. The little move a3 might explain
 why I couldn't reproduce your results?!

 /s



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