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Subject: Re: Kramnik interview

Author: Ricardo Gibert

Date: 19:30:01 12/16/02

Go up one level in this thread


On December 16, 2002 at 20:08:00, Pavel Blokhine wrote:

>On December 16, 2002 at 19:04:50, Wayne Lowrance wrote:
>
>>On December 16, 2002 at 18:51:56, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On December 16, 2002 at 18:28:39, Sally Weltrop wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 16, 2002 at 17:49:08, John Sidles wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=649
>>>>>
>>>>>Kramnik says:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There were not so many games where [Fritz] played strangely.
>>>>>> In many games it was simply like playing a strong human
>>>>>> Grandmaster, it was absolutely normal, absolutely human play.
>>>>>> In game five Fritz played very well, better than any human.
>>>>>> It seemed almost equal, but it managed to keeping putting
>>>>>> on this pressure all the time, it kept finding these
>>>>>> very precise moves, not giving me a chance to get away.
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> You can say Fritz is 2800, but you cannot measure
>>>>>> it by numbers really. It's very strong, it's very
>>>>>> very strong. But it depends on many things, especially
>>>>>> the opening. In some positions, if it gets its positions
>>>>>> you can make a draw or you can lose, two choices; you
>>>>>> can never win. In some positions its 3000. Maybe you
>>>>>> can suffer and make a draw. 10 Kasparovs and 20 Anands
>>>>>> wouldn't help you in these positions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So on the average you can say 2800 or a bit more,
>>>>>> but it matters what you get. If you get a position
>>>>>> like what I had in game five then no human can fight it.
>>>>>> But if you get what I had in game two then you have
>>>>>> a chance. It very much depends on the opening stage.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am old enough to remember CCC posts in which people
>>>>>argued about whether computers can play at grandmaster
>>>>>level (just three years ago!).  What will things be like
>>>>>another ten years?
>>>>
>>>>u beat me to it. I was going to post this statement. it says it's over 2800?
>>>>
>>>>What is Deep Blue's rating then? This machine was certainly much faster &
>>>>stronger that Fritz OR was it? :.)
>>>
>>>I do not believe a word of kramnik.
>>
>>Of course not !
>>
>>>I believe that kramnik lost on purpose but I do not expect him to admit it.
>>
>>Very strong accusation my friend
>>
>>>
>>>What he says in the interview simply does not make sense:
>>>
>>>"Objectively I think the final position of game six is losing, so I cannot say
>>>that I resigned in a drawn position. Maybe a computer won't find a way to win
>>>because it doesn't understand this fortress, but I cannot say I objectively
>>>missed a draw."
>>>
>>>I do not think that the final position is losing but even if there is a win that
>>>is very hard to find then resigning is a big mistake.
>>>
>>>It is not only that a computer will not find a way to win(this reason is good
>>>enough not to resign).
>>>I expect humans who understand the fortress to fail to see an idea how to win
>>>the game.
>>>
>>>It is not enough to undersatnd the fortress in order to win but you also need to
>>>find some plan to win.
>>>It is a clear mistake to resign even against humans.
>>>
>>>Kramnik is simply lying in the interview.
>>>His claim that the sacrifice can work against humans may be correct for weak
>>>humans but I expect strong grandmasters to find the right defence.
>>>
>>>His claim that he made only one mistake is also wrong.
>>>Kramnik had good winning chances against Fritz.
>>>
>>>Sacrificing the knight was probably one mistake and resigning was another
>>>mistake in the same game.
>>>
>>>Uri
>
>
>
>I read an interview of Kasparov where he said that since Kramnik received a copy
>of Fritz in Bahrain way before the match to test, any other result other than a
>win will not be admissible. And I strongly agree. Kasparov was kept in secrecy
>by the IBM team about Deep Blue and yet he outplayed the machine in almost every
>game except that infamous and bizarre game 6.  Kramnik should have beaten Deep
>Fritz. And I find it weird that he out played the machine for the first 4 games,
>and then couldn't manage a single win anymore. That's very bizarre. The Fritz
>team weren't allowed to make modifications, so how did they managed to make Deep
>Fritz change tactics and prevent the exchange of the queens?


If I remember correctly, they were limited in the changes they could make. I
don't think the limitations excluded modification of its opening preferences.



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