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Subject: Re: SURPRISING RESULTS P4 Xeon dual 2.8Ghz

Author: Matt Taylor

Date: 11:14:53 12/17/02

Go up one level in this thread


On December 17, 2002 at 13:42:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On December 17, 2002 at 11:51:29, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On December 17, 2002 at 11:33:53, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On December 17, 2002 at 11:25:10, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 17, 2002 at 10:58:51, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Indeed you are correctly seeing that DIEP, which runs well on
>>>>cc-NUMA machines as well, is a very good program from intels
>>>>perspective, because even a 'second' processor on each physical
>>>>processor which runs slower will still give it a speedboost,
>>>>where others simply slow down a lot when you do such toying.
>>>>
>>>>So where many programs which will be way slower when running at
>>>>4 processes/threads at a 2 processor Xeon, the software is the
>>>>weak chain.
>>>
>>>What program fits this description?  Not mine...
>>
>>*many* programs Bob. Crafty and DIEP aren't the only thing on the planet
>>which gets used by most people who need a dual to perform multithreading
>>for them. And majority of them uses NT4 server, 2000 server or XP pro/server.
>>
>
>Yes, but you paint with a broad brush and say many will be way slower" and I
>can't find a single one.  I have run crafty.  I have run several parallel
>programs for things like molecular modeling, a simulation, and _none_ do worse
>with HT on than with HT off.  Not a single one so far.  Some do _far_ better
>with SMT than Crafty.  Some do about the same.  But I haven't found a one yet
>that does worse unless you take the known exception for two processes running
>on one physical cpu while the other is idle.  That will be fixed shortly in
>linux, and is already fixed in windows .net
>
>>For sure not some non existing OS that is seeing the clear difference
>>between physical and split processors!
>
>Windows .net is not "non-existing".
>
>I don't follow the linux development kernels but wouldn't be surprised if they
>already have fixes being tested...

He is technically right about Windows .NET not existing. Microsoft isn't selling
it yet, or at least I am under that impression as they usually test software
-before- they release. I hope.

>>>>In case of DIEP the bottleneck is the hardware clearly. Even
>>>>something working great on cc-NUMA doesn't profit too much from
>>>>the SMT/HT junk from intel.
>>>>
>>>>Though it is a great sales argument, the hard facts (11.4%
>>>>speedboost) are not lying.
>>>>
>>>>So they need to press 2 cpu's which results in a cpu price
>>>>2 times higher *at least* than an AMD cpu, the result
>>>>is that you win 11.4% in speed.
>>>
>>>What are you talking about?  SMT doesn't "press 2 cpus".
>>
>>the size of a P4 processor is a lot bigger than the AMD core, that's
>>explaining for a big part why P4 is so much more expensive than a K7.
>
>What does that have to do with SMT?

Let me rephrase your question. "The Tampa Bay Buccaneers are 11-3. What does
that have to do with anything?"

The size doesn't offset the cost by $600. Profit margins do.

-Matt



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