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Subject: Re: Nullmove crap

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:34:34 12/18/02

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On December 18, 2002 at 20:57:37, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>In a new interview M. Feist, programmer of the Fritz gui said the following. And
>I simply am shortly before explosion and rofl.
>
>Feist said (after he had explained alpha-beta): nullmoving is with the following
>reflection: you look if you can win advantages after you had made two moves in a
>row, without the opponent making a move; if then this doesn't lead to advantage
>THEN the starting (first of the two) move was crap!
>
>Ok, so far the quote translated roughly by heart.
>
>Hint to the disbelievers under my fellow programmer experts:
>
>So, you would bet with me that I couldn't show you a position where the
>"nullmove" - although leading to advantage with a second move for free - would
>get into disadvantage in the longer run? Is exactly this meant with nullmove
>pruning? And what if that is crap in terms of real chess? And what if exactly in
>positional positions this could be shown? Would you still be faqithful to
>nullmove pruning or would you start to program in direction of more knowledge?
>
>Second hint: of course you can continue to program the way you can win against
>more than enough weaker masters, but is Bahrain not a real shock for you too,
>when Kramnik quite easily knocked out DEEP FRITZ simply with superior chess
>understanding? Do you really believe that you can gamble your inborn weakness
>away (lack of knowledge) because 98% of the players are not able to calculate
>exactly and or have too little numbers of chunk knowledge?
>
>(I will stop here, otherwise it becomes confusing.)
>
>With thanks already for any helping answers. Could youplease add nice diagrams
>with positions?
>
>Rolf Tueschen


Here is the point.  I will play you 100 games.  And in _each_ game, at a
place of my choice, I get to make two moves in a row.  I believe I can win that
match 100-0.

If I am in a position where I make two moves in a row and _still_ can't do any
damage to your position, my position sucks badly...




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