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Subject: Re: Nullmove crap

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 10:15:59 12/19/02

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On December 19, 2002 at 12:43:31, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>On December 19, 2002 at 11:12:59, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On December 19, 2002 at 07:59:40, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>
>>>On December 19, 2002 at 00:21:59, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 18, 2002 at 22:55:44, Russell Reagan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 18, 2002 at 22:45:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>It is going to be a queen-odds game most every time, otherwise you have to make
>>>>>>_sure_ you never leave your queen open to a two-mover.  IE I play Ne6 and don't
>>>>>>let you play dxe6 in this case and instantly play Nxd8 and the game is basically
>>>>>>over.  There are lots of such "plans" to deal with.  I think a double move once
>>>>>>in a game is enough to offset at _least_ a 500 point rating difference.
>>>>>
>>>>>It sounds like you are assuming that your opponent won't know (or will
>>>>>momentarilly forget) about this added double move rule. IE your opponent isn't
>>>>>going to let you play Ne6, and then say, "oh, I completely forgot about the
>>>>>double move rule." He would probably prevent you from playing Ne6 in the first
>>>>>place, since he would have calculated ahead and known that if you get to play
>>>>>Ne6, he loses his queen.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>What I am saying is that it adds an impossible dimension to the game.  You have
>>>>to make moves that allow _no_ two-move tricks.  IE two-move checkmates, or
>>>>two-move tricks to win big material, or promote a pawn, or whatever...
>>>>
>>>>>I think it's a big advantage, but I think if you played 100 games between two
>>>>>computer opponents, both of which were knowledgable about the double move
>>>>>possibility, it wouldn't turn out 100-0, but I may be underestimating the
>>>>>advantage.
>>>>
>>>>You should try it.  I used to play several variants on this theme at chess
>>>>club meetings.  For example "may I".  It is a terrible advantage.
>>>
>>>
>>>Bob, I think that actually the GM could (if they wished, but of course they
>>>don't in a PR show for million dollars) almost 'zugzwang' a DEEP FRITZ. Feist
>>>was really believing that his high selectivity could bring advantages because
>>>the depth should be deep enough. But I am saying that good GM would find out the
>>>solution what the machine had "forgotten" to analyse. And therefore such
>>>nonsense is overall spoken good, for the majoritya of players, amateurs of
>>>course, but the best players have the killer instinct to find out the exceptions
>>>of the game.
>>>
>>>Rolf Tueschen
>>
>>
>>Yes, but here is where you are wrong:
>>
>>You are talking about a particular _implementation_ of an idea (null-move search
>>as implented in Fritz.)  An "implementation" can be bad, while the original idea
>>is good.  I can think of automobiles that fit this category.  :)
>>
>>But don't confuse "theoretical idea" with "practical implementation".
>
>1) I'm ready now for the last secrets. Please tell me all about it. How do you
>make sure that Kramnik can't find the holes in your selectivity.

No way I know of.  But the holes might not be so obvious, and they may take
quite a while to expose and understand.  The match might be over by then.  :)


>
>2) I found it absolutely unfair when you had ice the last time in NY or
>elsewhere and they showed a VW slipping and sliding on the ice without clear
>direction. I think the VW was one of very few cars who were still functioning
>while Ford and all that still took a break in the garage! Admit it!

Not here.  I have a Dodge pickup and ice rarely stops me, so I can't say
much else.




>
>3) Made in Germany is still World Class. You can also see it in computer chess.
>;)

What is made in Germany today?  IE the Mercedes?  Got a Mercedes plant 40
miles from my house, the only site where the M-class is built.




>
>Rolf Tueschen



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