Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 19:55:52 12/19/02
Go up one level in this thread
On December 19, 2002 at 18:59:55, Peter Fendrich wrote:
>On December 19, 2002 at 17:36:42, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On December 19, 2002 at 14:05:23, Andreas Herrmann wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>today i got a game per email, with the folling PGN:
>>>
>>>[Event "Blitz:15'"]
>>>[Site "Woodbury, MN"]
>>>[Date "2002.12.16"]
>>>[Round "?"]
>>>[White "Manicka, Ed"]
>>>[Black "Holmes v 8.13e [2150]"]
>>>[Result "1-0"]
>>>[ECO "E90"]
>>>[Annotator "Manicka,Ed"]
>>>[PlyCount "97"]
>>>[TimeControl "900"]
>>>
>>>{32MB, Empty.ctg, Dell Laptop
>>>} 1. d4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Nf6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 2.
>>>c4 {[%emt 0:00:05]} g6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 3. Nc3 {[%emt 0:00:06]} Bg7 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:00]} 4. e4 {[%emt 0:00:04]} d6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 5. Nf3 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:05]} O-O {[%emt 0:00:00]} 6. h3 {[%emt 0:00:09]} e5 {[%emt 0:00:00]}
>>>7. d5 {[%emt 0:00:21]} Na6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 8. a3 {[%emt 0:00:11]} Nc5 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:36]} 9. Qc2 {[%emt 0:00:15]} c6 {[%emt 0:00:30]} 10. b4 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:08]} Ncd7 {[%emt 0:00:13]} 11. dxc6 {[%emt 0:00:51]} bxc6 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:00]} 12. Be3 {[%emt 0:00:04]} a5 {[%emt 0:00:11]} 13. b5 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:42]} Bb7 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 14. Bd3 {[%emt 0:01:35]} cxb5 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:01]} 15. cxb5 {[%emt 0:00:03]} d5 {[%emt 0:00:18]} 16. Bg5 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:18]} Qb8 {[%emt 0:00:30]} 17. Nd2 {[%emt 0:01:21]} Rc8 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:01]} 18. Bxf6 {[%emt 0:00:42]} Nxf6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 19. Qb2 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:26]} Qc7 {[%emt 0:00:39]} 20. Nd1 {[%emt 0:00:05]} dxe4 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:22]} 21. Bc4 {[%emt 0:00:04]} Bh6 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 22. Ne3 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:09]} Bxe3 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 23. fxe3 {[%emt 0:00:03]} Qb6 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:35]} 24. Kf2 {[%emt 0:00:12]} Rc7 {[%emt 0:00:34]} 25. Rac1 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:09]} Rd8 {[%emt 0:00:12]} 26. Rhe1 {[%emt 0:00:09]} Rcd7 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:45]} 27. Nf1 {[%emt 0:00:13]} Qd6 {[%emt 0:00:12]} 28. Kg1 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:06]} a4 {[%emt 0:00:29]} 29. Ng3 {[%emt 0:00:09]} Qe7 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:10]} 30. Rf1 {[%emt 0:00:12]} Rd2 {[%emt 0:00:11]} 31. Rc2 {
>>>[%emt 0:00:04]} Rd1 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 32. b6 {[%emt 0:00:05]} h6 {[%emt 0:00:18]
>>>} 33. Rcf2 {[%emt 0:00:07]} ...
>>>
>>>It seems it was played under a Chessbase GUI.
>>>
>>>
>>>Here the position after 32. .. h6
>>>[D]3r2k1/1b2qp2/1P3npp/4p3/p1B1p3/P3P1NP/1QR3P1/3r1RK1 w - - 0 33
>>>
>>>
>>>What's here the rigth SAN notation for move 33.
>>>
>>>Winboard and Holmes produces here Rf2 instead of Rcf2, because Rff2 isn't a
>>>legal move.
>>>
>>>I have made in Holmes for excample a book out of cleanbook.pgn with over 75.000
>>>games and Holmes has readed all games without errors.
>>>
>>>This was the first game where Holmes has problems to read a PGN game, because of
>>>the move "Rcf2", Holmes expected here "Rf2".
>>>
>>>So what should be here the right SAN notation?
>>
>>I am not certain, but I believe that Rcf2 is correct. I don't think that
>>SAN uses "legality" as a disambiguator...
>
>No Rcf2 isn't correct (as an output format and that's what the standards deals
>with).
>From the PGN standard:
>------------------------------------
>...Note that the above disambiguation is needed only to distinguish among moves
>of the same piece type to the same square; it is not used to distinguish among
>attacks of the same piece type to the same square. An example of this would be a
>position with two white knights, one on square c3 and one on square g1 and a
>vacant square e2 with White to move. Both knights attack square e2, and if both
>could legally move there, then a file disambiguation is needed; the
>(nonchecking) knight moves would be "Nce2" and "Nge2". However, if the white
>king were at square e1 and a black bishop were at square b4 with a vacant square
>d2 (thus an absolute pin of the white knight at square c3), then only one white
>knight (the one at square g1) could move to square e2: "Ne2".
>-------------------------------------
>Maybe there is some other rule that contradict this but I can't find it.
>
>/Peter
OK... That came up with a conversation with Steven Edwards years ago. Crafty
does (and did) eliminate illegal moves before converting to SAN and he pointed
out that what I was doing was incorrect... or so I remembered. But I never
changed it.
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