Author: Detlef Pordzik
Date: 14:51:05 09/20/98
Go up one level in this thread
On September 20, 1998 at 07:08:26, Dirk Frickenschmidt wrote: >When I read the present CSTal debate I get the impression that as customer of >the program you will probably need some humor not to be irritated. >So here some advice to other customers: > >1. Enjoy your program. > >It contains some really interesting chess programming ideas and is well able to >play beautiful chess. >Although it may be somewhat behind in overall playing strength compared to the >top programs, it is well able to beat any of them in single games. >And its unique playing style is worth it alone. > >2. Do not worry about some minor problems concerning program versions > >Up to now there are three more or less public versions of the program. > >- a) One on CD is available all the time. But it was updated and is no longer >regarded as the best version by the programmer since quite a while. > >- b) One called 284 was offered as Paris update version on the Oxford softworks >server and was recommended by the programmer over a longer period. But Thorsten >Czub tells us that it is a "broken" version. It has disappeared from the server >now suddenly, though texts and link still tell the customers that it is >available and should be used as update. >Unfortunately you can't get this officially recommended update any longer > >- c) One called 289 consists of two versions, "CSTal White" and "CSTal Black". >CSTal Black was built because CSTal had an unusually big negative score with >black against other programs, with the very speculative parameters it used (more >successfully) with white. >Now don't get mistaken from this background and from the names of the versions. >As we now learned, this does not mean that you have to use different program >versions playing with white and black (which most customers just like me would >not appreciate because it would simply be inconvenient to switch manually >between them all the time). >Instead we now learn that CSTal Black should be used for games with computers, >while CSTal White suits games with humans. Perhaps proper names for both >versions could make that clearer even to the customers. > >So CSTal Black would be the choice recommended by Thorsten Czub for games >against computers. He is probably right, being the most experienced tester of >the program over many years. > >But unfortunately you can't get this version either, neither by public download >nor by buying an update disk or CD. > >It once was on the Oxford softworks server, but isn't any longer. Some people >received it by email, others downloaded it in the short period when it was >available, but probably most of CSTal owners don't have it and don't know they >should use it for computer games. Thorsten Czub tells us the reason for taking >it away were some from his and Chris Whittington's view inappropriate questions >concerning the inconvenient switching between CStal white and black games >supposed by one or two customer(s): >>We put 289 from the server because harald faber complained about it in rgcc. > >d) One newer version, CSTal Win95 is announced to be released soon (on the >Oxford Softworks server). But Thorsten Czub tells us, that it may never be >released, again due to some from his view inappropriate critisism from some >people concerning the way CSTal versions are published. >The ongoing existence of customers of a program even after having bought it can >be really annoying! :-))) > > > 3. Some customers are probably quite irritated by tone and content of Thorsten >Czubs way of promoting the program and giving advice to its customers. > >In any case don't worry. He is not yet CSTal, even if it might occur like that >sometimes. :-) He has contributed a lot to testing and developing the program, >but he is not the author and probably will not write any updates, although he >preferably says "we" and "our program" when speaking of Chris Whittington's >program. So it may be prudent to assume that neither the program nor Oxford >softworks nor the programmer are responsible for everything Thorsten says, or >agree to it in every case. > >So if you for example you might read from Thorsten Czub > >- a) to a customer of CSTal: >>we don't want to sell the program to idiots. Why should we. WE choose which >>people we want to adress. People like you, i don't think we want to adress. > >then don't wonder about this new form of customer support. > >Don't worry: you don't have to prove to Thorsten or Oxford Softworks that your >intelligence is sufficient for getting CSTal or an upgrade. >Be sure: *nobody* is able to get a reasonable public udate right now. >So don't feel too stupid even after being adressed by Thorsten. > >- b) Or if you are surprised to read as customer advice: >>Its the best you delete cstal from your harddisc. >>The best for us. The best for you. > >Then don't be shocked. You signed no contract when buying CSTal saying you have >to delete CSTal from your harddisk as soon as the programmer or one of his >testers doesn't like your questions concerning the program any longer. You are >allowed to leave it on the harddisk and be happy to have at least an outdated >version of the program. >This is more than nothing, is it? ;-) > >Of course you will receive some heavy critisism if you use this version for >computer tournaments. Why weren't you smart enough to get it during the short >period it was available? So better play silent with your old version and don't >publish games of it anywhere, but on the other hand you shouldn't dare to >complain about not getting a new version from a public server or not even on a >buyable disk or CD: complaints would only make things worse for you and all the >other customers as well... > >You have to understand one thing really now, namely that nasty complaints have >to be punished: >>as i said. we deleted it. Now you get nothing. IMO exactly what you deserve. > >But as I said, don't worry about these minor drawbacks. You still have the >outdated version, and this is more than nothing for your money, is it? > >- c) Also don't worry if your personal customer punishment by Thorsten Czub is >getting a bit irrational, like it happened versus Moritz. When someone asked: > >>>I understood that Moritz got the better version by email but does not want to >>>test a version that is not now on the server > >Thorsten answered. >>now he cannot test anything because there is NOTHING on the server anymore. >>AETSCH ! > >You have to understand this sentence properly: the expression "Aetsch" is a >German children's expression, meaning something like "boo, now you got it". This >may be a signal to understand the whole sentence in a proper way. > >Anything else would be difficult, because if Moritz just is testing the old >server update *and* the new one (sent by Thorsten to him by email) as well, he >is obviously using both and cannot be punished by taking anything from the >server. ;-) > >So the sentence >>now he cannot test anything because there is NOTHING on the server anymore. >may have some weird kind of logic, but then rather like else children use it, >claiming they cannot be seen anymore soon as they have their hands on their >eyes. > >But anyway you as customer shouldn't worry, your program CSTal, however unusual, >is *not* based on this kind of logic :-) > >d) Even if you as an inappropriate CSTal customer read from Thorsten about >another inappropriate CSTal customer: >>Maybe i should better send him a nice virus. He would deserve it... :-) > >Don't worry again. Even if you deserve it (and you certainly deserve it after >any form of CSTal critisism) Thorsten will probably not send you a virus. >This means some relief, does it? > >e) As a customer you should first of all memorize the main rule and always keep >it in mind: >> Pah - chess system tal was never made for the customers. > >This would not only explain some things concerning the user interface. ;-) >Mainly it reminds you: in a way you are a happy man still having got it! >Because, as you learn: >>we have made cstal mainly for us. >>And than we shared it with others. >>Because we do the same in normal life, >>sharing the things we love/like together. > >I am always happy remembering I was one of those who were allowed to share this >program for some more bucks than the now official price (Oxford softworks page) >of 29.99 English pound, around 50 $ or some more than 80 German Mark, with >Thorsten Czub and Chris Whittington. This idelistic way of not keeping the >program for themselves and not dwelling alone in its richness, but "sharing the >things we love/like" with us less idealistic mortals, are exactly the roots of >our post-modern, human forms of capitalism. >We don't just spend money for products we want to use. Oh no! >Next time I buy some bread and butter I will remember that this is rather a way >of "sharing beloved things together" :-) > >*** > >What can we learn from all this? > >1. As I said above: enjoy CSTal in whatever version you have. > >2. Don't take it too serious how you are treated as CStal customer. Not taking >it too serious is the only way of not feeling disappointed or even offended. > >3. Enjoy computer chess: fine with CSTal, if unavailable without it... >There are still two or three other interesting programs. Or even more? > >4. Even after severe punishment threats there suddenly might occur a new >version, either a server update or a new selling version sharing more of the >"things they love to share with others" at a fair prize. And even the critics >might get it. You never know, because they even happen to surprise themselves >sometimes. >So last not least finally here we got something sympathetic, do we? :-) > >Kind regards >from Dirk All this is amusing to read - at least above the surface. If one'd insist more or worse, one could come to the conclusion, it'd be a intelligent written flame against TC. A man, who polarizes, no doubts. A man, who got his personal failiures, just like you'n me. And most time the ghosts'll appear, you're shoutin' for - to use a German, traditional. But I'd like to take his part, a little - just from my very personal sight. I had close & very constructive contacts with the Author of the prog. Chris Wh., after our personal quarrel concerning the prog and I had basically the same with TC over the years, with several attacks against me personally., as well. But - all this can be solved - peacefully - and TC, in person, is very well able to say " I'm sorry " - if he reckognizes he's been wrong. One thing for sure, Dirk, and I ain't too sure, that you'd feel different, if you were in the same position : I personally still call S.E. b+c " my " prog - eventhough I was only peripheral involved in the eng. testing and helped a little to increase it; TC was - as far as I know from Chris, THAT MUCH involved in the making of the prog - even if he didn't write the codes, that I kinda respect this " we, our " ect. Sometimes I see a worthwile to remember sentence here ( think, KK uses it ) : ....take it with a grain of salt...... - and a smile, a real ( ! ) one. And remember what we all should do - you personally under all circumstances ( remembering your profession, or call it faith ) : who are you ( nicely : we ) to throw the 1st stone ?? To the topic, if it was the one : CSTal - I bought it, I was a legal owner - and I disliked it - by various reasons. But this was a personal decision of mine, nothin' to speak about in general. Yet, absolutely true is : there WAS a " paris Vs " - came along with the prog itself as an add. eng. there was a " black + white .eng Vs " as well - quite a long time on the server. IF you'd write a mail to them,, or phone Chris, you'd get your .eng Vs for sure ! I wrote all this in a little " fear " - as I've read just today, TC got some " yellow card ".........so we're about to loose one of them, who really gives it all - for our hobby. maybe sometimes in a - very - specific + uncommon way, but remember : TC has been + still is a very experienced, yet emphatic, tester with a huge background of knowledge, concerning progs. So, why not smile a little - show this attitude with " the salt thing " - your letter was brilliant - but it contains them bad vibes wrapped in intelligent phrases, that just shouldn't be. Nevertheless - just my opinion - and, of course a quiet, pleasant sunday ELVIS
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