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Subject: Re: Fischer - Panno, 1970 [it's not a good test position]

Author: Dave Gomboc

Date: 03:10:15 12/28/02

Go up one level in this thread


On December 27, 2002 at 21:09:16, Mike Byrne wrote:

>On December 27, 2002 at 18:40:51, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>
>>On December 27, 2002 at 12:18:13, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>
>>>On December 27, 2002 at 02:45:16, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 26, 2002 at 19:53:10, Mike S. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 26, 2002 at 19:34:25, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>28. Be4!  a super grandmaster move, by a super grandmaster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Any programs come up with this?
>>>>>>[d]2nq1nk1/5p1p/4p1pQ/pb1pP1NP/1p1P2P1/1P4N1/P4PB1/6K1 w - -
>>>>>
>>>>>It looks like White can insert the zwischenzug 28.hxg6, whereafter Black has to
>>>>>defend against the simple threat gxh7+ Kh8 (Nxh7 doesn't make much sense either)
>>>>>Nxf7 mate, first. IOW it looks to me as if Be4 doesn't have to be played
>>>>>immediatly (I didn't analyse much).
>>>>>
>>>>>It's often a problem with test positions when the attacker can play a simple but
>>>>>strong threat alternatively (and delay the intended solution, so you don't know
>>>>>if the program has missed it or is just going to play it later...).
>>>>>
>>>>>Analysis by Fritz 7 (P3/700, 96 MB hash):
>>>>>
>>>>>1.hxg6 fxg6 2.Nxh7 Nxh7 3.Qxg6+ Kh8 4.Qxe6 Bd7 5.Qxd5 Ng5 6.Nf5 Ne6
>>>>>  ²  (0.63)   Depth: 8/27   00:00:00  301kN
>>>>>  ±  (0.91)   Depth: 12/35   00:00:23  7799kN
>>>>>1.Be4 Be8 2.hxg6 hxg6 3.Nh5 gxh5 4.Bh7+ Nxh7 5.Nxh7 f5 6.Nf6+ Kf7 7.Nxh5 Ke7
>>>>>8.Qg7+
>>>>>  ±  (0.94)   Depth: 12/35   00:00:38  12492kN
>>>>>  ±  (1.09)   Depth: 13/36   00:01:09  23280kN
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>M.Scheidl
>>>>
>>>>Hi Mike
>>>>I fully agree. This test position is not a good one because at least three moves
>>>>are easily winning here, namely 1.Be4, 1.hxg6 and 1.Nxh7
>>>>
>>>>Below the analysis of Shredder7 ond P4 1.8/32 MB hash:
>>>>
>>>>New game
>>>>2nq1nk1/5p1p/4p1pQ/pb1pP1NP/1p1P2P1/1P4N1/P4PB1/6K1 w - - 0 1
>>>>
>>>>Analysis by Shredder 7:
>>>>
>>>>1.hxg6 hxg6 2.Qh8+ Kxh8 3.Nxf7+ Kg8 4.Nxd8 g5 5.Nb7 a4 6.bxa4 Bc4 7.Nd6 Nxd6
>>>>8.exd6 Bxa2
>>>>  +-  (1.44)   Depth: 1/7   00:00:00
>>>>  +-  (2.21)   Depth: 10/26   00:00:01  525kN
>>>>1.Nxh7 Nxh7 2.hxg6 fxg6 3.Qxg6+ Kh8 4.Qxe6 Ne7 5.Nf5 Nxf5 6.gxf5 Qc7 7.Qh6
>>>>  +-  (2.22)   Depth: 10/26   00:00:02  631kN
>>>>  +-  (2.29)   Depth: 15/41   00:01:57  31632kN
>>>>1.Be4 Be8 2.hxg6 hxg6 3.Nh5 gxh5 4.Bh7+ Nxh7 5.Nxh7 f5 6.exf6 Qc7 7.f7+ Kh8
>>>>  +-  (2.30)   Depth: 15/42   00:03:52  60969kN
>>>>  +-  (2.30)   Depth: 15/42   00:03:52  60969kN
>>>>
>>>>(Utzinger, MyTown 27.12.2002)
>>>
>>>
>>>It may not be a good test position - I was just admiring the game itself.  I am
>>>reviewing Chess Informant "DEMO BASE" with 500 annotated games selected from
>>>various Informants.  Their new software, which I purchased, "Chess Informant
>>>Expert 4.0"( about $52) -- is very very cool.  It allows for full import and
>>>export of CI electronic Informants to PGN and vica-versa.  This could be very
>>>useful in building a quality book :>).
>>>
>>>There are also little known secrets in acquiring all of the Chess Informants
>>>books electronically (and legally) at modest cost.
>>>
>>>Chess Informant 83 CD,  includes as a special bonus, all of the Chess Informant
>>>Games Volume 1-82 in PGN format(without annotations).  It's highlighted on thier
>>>webpage ( http://www.sahovski.com/default.htm) , just go to the "Shop online"
>>>select electronic editions and find the "Chess Informants 83 & 84".
>>>You will get "Chess Informants 83 and 84 CD" for price of one(about $32).  So
>>>for about $84, you can get Chess Informants 1-84 electronically with software
>>>that you will allow you to export and import into PGN files.
>>>
>>>Michael Byrne
>>
>>That is beginning to sound interesting.  Can you tell me if the PGN export is
>>run on their annotated games, then will the annotations be exported as well as
>>the moves?  And if the answer to that is yes, then do they have a CD-ROM or two
>>that contains all the games -- annotated! -- that can be purchased?  (But I am
>>not interested if the annotations cannot be exported out of their proprietary
>>format.)
>>
>>Dave
>
>Yes, annotations can be exported - but they would have to be translated.
>
>Something like this (onthe google post) would be your guide:
>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=apk6bq%24243a%241%40norfair.nerim.net
>
>Michael Byrne

They need to be translated?  I take it that it doesn't use the NAG codes defined
by the PGN standard, then. :-(

Dave




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