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Subject: Re: Correction

Author: John Merlino

Date: 18:18:27 12/28/02

Go up one level in this thread


On December 28, 2002 at 17:52:39, Dana Turnmire wrote:

>On December 28, 2002 at 17:39:09, Dana Turnmire wrote:
>
>>[Event ""]
>>[Site ""]
>>[Date "2002.12.28"]
>>[Round ""]
>>[White "CM 9000"]
>>[Black "Genius 7"]
>>[TimeControl "5400"]
>>[Result "*"]
>>[Setup "1"]
>[d]rbnkbnrq/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNKBNRQ w - - 0 1
>
>>1.g3 c6 2.d4 f6 3.c4 Bf7 4.Ne3 Nb6 5.c5 Nd5 6.Nf5 e6 7.Nd6 Bxd6 8.cxd6
>>Ke8 9.Nd3 Nb6 10.Bb4 Bg6 11.e4 a5 12.Bc5 Nc8 13.a4 b6 14.Ba3 h6 15.Qf3
>>Qh7 16.Re1 Rh8 17.h4 Kd8 18.h5 Bf7 19.b4 Qg8 20.e5 axb4 21.Bxb4 Nh7
>>22.a5 Qe8 23.axb6 Nxb6 24.Rxa8+ Nxa8 25.Nf4 Bxh5 26.Nxh5 fxe5 27.Nxg7
>>Qg8 28.Qa3 Nb6 29.Qa7 *
>>
>>In this Fischer Random Game CM9000 announced mate in 16.  I was surprised
>>because each side only has 90 minutes for the whole game.  Here is the final
>>position. Fischer Random may be a good way to test how well programs calculate
>>since none of the positions are stored in an opening book.
>>
>>[d]3k2qr/Q2p2Nn/1npPp2p/4p3/1B1P4/6P1/5P2/1B1KR3 b - - 0 29

Two things:

1) My version of CM9000, on a P3-733, announces Mate in 15 in 5:13. Perhaps you
saw the Mate in 16 announcement before 29.Qa7?

Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
0:00	1/3	8.03	1493		29...Qxg7 30.Qb8+ Nc8 31.Qc7+ Ke8
					32.Qxc8+ Kf7 33.Qxd7+ Kg8 34.Qxe6+
					Qf7 35.Qxf7+ Kxf7 36.dxe5
0:00	1/4	8.31	4038		29...Qxg7 30.Qb8+ Nc8 31.Ba5+ Ke8
					32.Qxc8+ Kf7 33.Qxd7+ Kg8 34.Qxe6+
					Qf7 35.Qxf7+ Kxf7 36.dxe5
0:00	1/5	8.69	14440		29...Qxg7 30.Qb8+ Nc8 31.Ba5+ Ke8
					32.Qxc8+ Kf7 33.Qxd7+ Kg8 34.Qxe6+
					Qf7 35.Ba2 Qxe6 36.Bxe6+ Kg7 37.dxe5
0:00	1/6	9.72	44920		29...Qxg7 30.Qb8+ Nc8 31.Ba5+ Ke8
					32.Qxc8+ Kf7 33.Qxd7+ Kg8 34.Qxe6+
					Qf7 35.Qg4+ Ng5 36.d7 Kg7 37.d8=Q
					Rxd8 38.Bxd8
0:01	1/7	12.89	124016		29...Qxg7 30.Qb8+ Nc8 31.Qc7+ Ke8
					32.Qxc8+ Kf7 33.Qxd7+ Kg8 34.Qe8+
					Nf8 35.d7 c5 36.d8=Q cxb4 37.Qxe6+
					Qf7 38.Qxf7+ Kxf7 39.dxe5
0:02	1/8	15.75	278402		29...Qxg7 30.Qb8+ Nc8 31.Qc7+ Ke8
					32.Qxc8+ Kf7 33.Qxd7+ Kg8 34.Qe8+
					Nf8 35.d7 c5 36.d8=Q Qg4+ 37.Kc1
					Qg5+ 38.Qxg5+ hxg5 39.dxc5
0:06	1/9	16.29	762182		29...Qxg7 30.Qb8+ Nc8 31.Qc7+ Ke8
					32.Qxc8+ Kf7 33.Qxd7+ Kg8 34.Qe8+
					Nf8 35.d7 c5 36.d8=Q Rh7 37.Bxh7+
					Kxh7 38.dxc5
0:22	1/10	25.18	2675042		29...Qxg7 30.Qb8+ Nc8 31.Qc7+ Ke8
					32.Qxc8+ Kf7 33.Qxd7+ Kg8 34.Qe8+
					Nf8 35.d7 c5 36.d8=Q e4 37.Qxe6+
					Qf7 38.Ba2 Rh7 39.Qg6+ Kh8 40.Bxf7
5:13	2/11	Mate15	38563606	29...Qxg7 30.Qb8+ Nc8 31.Qc7+ Ke8
					32.Qxc8+ Kf7 33.Qxd7+ Kf8 34.Qd8+
					Kf7 35.Qe7+ Kg8 36.Qe8+ Nf8 37.d7
					c5 38.d8=Q e4 39.Qxe6+ Qf7 40.Bxc5
					Kg7 41.Qxf7+ Kxf7 42.Qe7+ Kg8 43.Qxf8+
					Kh7 44.Bxe4#

2) Fischer Random chess, IMO, only eliminates opening theory. It does not
eliminate positional considerations or tactical possibilities. Given that chess
engines are generally considered weakest in the opening, FR chess could
certainly be used to test engine knowledge. But the problem is that it is
difficult to say with any certainty what the best move is in a particular
opening, since there IS no opening theory.
Additionally, I suspect that, all else being equal, White has more of an
advantage in FR chess than in regular chess, as Black does not have access to
opening theory which allows for more chances for equalization and/or
complications. This is just a thought, though....

jm



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