Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Question about possible pawn positions

Author: Drexel,Michael

Date: 05:47:26 12/29/02

Go up one level in this thread


On December 29, 2002 at 08:34:56, John Lowe wrote:

>On December 29, 2002 at 08:29:18, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>
>>On December 29, 2002 at 08:14:27, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On December 29, 2002 at 07:51:25, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 29, 2002 at 05:45:00, John Lowe wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 29, 2002 at 00:26:50, Les Fernandez wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>[D]4k3/8/8/8/8/2P5/1PPP4/4K3 w - -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The above pawn structure to the best of my knowledge can't ever be reached since
>>>>>>the c3 pawn would have had to come from either b2-c2-d2.  Are there alot of
>>>>>>these type of positions or are there a handful of pawn structures that we know
>>>>>>can't happen?  Perhaps someone knows of a link that discusses this or can shed
>>>>>>"some" light as to what types of structures I can be made aware of.  I am
>>>>>>working on an idea to increase our data in the C.A.P project for which an
>>>>>>understanding on reachable pawn positions is important.  Any input that you can
>>>>>>provide me with would be deeply appreciated.  It may be that there are so many
>>>>>>various scenario's that I might just have to leave out this portion of what I am
>>>>>>trying to do and just work with the other entities but I would prefer to work
>>>>>>pawns into my idea if possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>It is possible to get, within the rules - not the sensible game - a white pawn
>>>>>on a2,a3,a4,a5,a6 and a7
>>>>>
>>>>>This will "cost" 15 captures leaving no capturable pieces for the g2 and h2
>>>>>pawns. It will involve making king-side black pawns available for capture by
>>>>>sacrificing white pieces to them - it will take some analysis to discover how
>>>>>but my guess is that it can be done.
>>>>>
>>>>>Migrations bigger than this will be outside the rules.
>>>>>
>>>>>Does this help
>>>>>
>>>>>>Les   ?
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards
>>>>>
>>>>>John
>>>>
>>>>Sorry John but this can not be done:
>>>>
>>>>[D] k7/P7/P7/P7/P7/P7/P7/K7 w - - 0 1
>>>>
>>>>This pawn structure can not be reached within the rules.
>>>>The problem is:
>>>>you have not enough white pieces available in order to sacrifice them to make
>>>>all black king-side pawns available.
>>>
>>>It just happened in a game that I played against myself in 10 minutes
>>>
>>>Sorry for the low level of the moves but I am not good at blitz(;_
>>>
>>>[Event "Edited game"]
>>>[Site "URI-PC"]
>>>[Date "2002.12.29"]
>>>[Round "-"]
>>>[White "-"]
>>>[Black "-"]
>>>[Result "*"]
>>>
>>>1. h4 a5 2. h5 a4 3. Nf3 a3 4. bxa3 b5 5. Rh3 b4 6. Nd4 b3 7. cxb3 Ra4 8.
>>>bxa4 c5 9. g3 c4 10. Bg2 c3 11. dxc3 Qa5 12. Bf3 Na6 13. Bg2 Nb4 14. cxb4
>>>d5 15. bxa5 Nf6 16. Nb3 d4 17. g4 d3 18. exd3 Ba6 19. g5 Nxh5 20. Rg3 Bc4
>>>21. dxc4 e5 22. Rh3 e4 23. Rg3 e3 24. fxe3 Bc5 25. Rh3 Nf6 26. Rg3 Bd4 27.
>>>exd4 Ke7 28. Bd2 Ne4 29. Bc1 Nxg5 30. Bd2 Ne4 31. Bc1 Nc5 32. dxc5 h5 33.
>>>Bd2 h4 34. Bc1 h3 35. Be3 h2 36. Bg1 h1=Q 37. N1d2 Rb8 38. Nf3 Rb6 39. cxb6
>>>g5 40. Qb1 Kd7 41. Qb2 Kc8 42. Qb1 Kb7 43. Qb2 Ka8 44. Qb1 Qh8 45. Qb2 Qb8
>>>46. Qb1 Qa7 47. bxa7 g4 48. Qd3 gxf3 49. Qd7 fxg2 50. Qb7+ Kxb7 51. Bf2
>>>g1=Q+ 52. Kd2 Qxf2+ 53. Kd3 Qxg3+ 54. Kd2 f5 55. Rg1 Qxg1 56. Kc2 f4 57.
>>>Kd2 f3 58. Kc2 f2 59. Kd2 f1=Q 60. Kc2 Qc5 61. Kd2 Qb5 62. cxb5 Qf6 63. Kc2
>>>Qe6 64. Kb2 Qxb3+ 65. Kc1 Qe6 66. Kb2 Qd6 67. Ka1 Qa6 68. bxa6+ Ka8
>>>*
>>>
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>Nice game Uri,
>>just forgot the possibility to promote the pawns. at least it can not be reached
>>without promotion.
>>
>>
>>Michael
>
>Thanks Uri.....
>
>A good illustration of "You can't win by resigning!"
>
>See my other posting....   :(
>
>John

"This will "cost" 15 captures leaving no capturable pieces for the g2 and h2
pawns. It will involve making king-side black pawns available for capture by
sacrificing white pieces to them - it will take some analysis to discover how
but my guess is that it can be done."

you havent thought about promotion too, John
I should not rely on your words without further investigation.

happy new year

Michael




This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.