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Subject: Re: use a book! this is meaningless (NT)

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 06:26:01 12/30/02

Go up one level in this thread


On December 30, 2002 at 09:23:32, Uri Blass wrote:

>On December 30, 2002 at 08:27:40, John Lowe wrote:
>
>>On December 30, 2002 at 07:55:20, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>>
>>>On December 30, 2002 at 07:53:10, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 30, 2002 at 03:16:27, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 30, 2002 at 02:03:57, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On December 29, 2002 at 14:07:14, Lieven Clarisse wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I disagree, testing without an opening book is a good test for chess engines!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>lieven.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is totally wrong.
>>>>>>Sorry, but the program has been developed considering the use of a massive book,
>>>>>>which is an important part of the program. So it is like to use the program
>>>>>>without legs...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>To me, the no use of the book or the use of a different book, it is like to test
>>>>>>a Ferrari F1 with a different engine or shape:-))
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ciao
>>>>>>Sandro
>>>>>
>>>>>Engines are used also for analysis and not only for engine-engine games from the
>>>>>opening book.
>>>>
>>>>OK, but why not use openings book until the end of the variations?
>>>>
>>>>Do you know that to develop the theory up to today level a huge amount of games
>>>>where needed?
>>>>
>>>>Chess is not perfect mathematics, so you cannot expect a program to find better
>>>>moves in the early stage of the game unless they can analyse until the endgame
>>>>and this would mean a huge more hardware power!
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The question which engine is better from the opening position is not relevant
>>>>>for correspondence players who use chess engines to help them.
>>>>
>>>>If they rely on those moves instead of the theory ones they will not go too far!
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The releavant question for them is which engine is better in the opening that
>>>>>they play.
>>>>
>>>>Why without the book.
>>>>
>>>>Why you do not ask GMs to play without theory? This is all nonsense!
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>Sandro
>>>
>>>Uri,
>>>
>>>so how is Shredder 7?
>>>
>>>What about my statements?
>>>
>>>Any comment?
>>>
>>>Sandro
>>
>>Hi Sandro,
>>
>>To use a book or not.....
>>
>>Your comments about grandmasters don't hold water for me.
>>
>>The book is "crib-sheet" for the exam. The GM has the knowlege based on his
>>research of first class games. The GM understands the book!
>
>No
>
>I remember that I read in the past about a game when kasparov lost because he
>trusted his memory but unfortunately his memory betrayed him and he only
>remembered that a move is good but did not remember the reason that was written
>in his notebook.
>
>
>>
>>It's a matter of programming style - to have an exhaustive book or to have a
>>knowlege-based program. I might get more wins for my program if I use an
>>extensive crib-sheet but if I can get my program to "understand" the position on
>>the board - I've made a contribution to computer chess. Most programmers would
>>prefer the second (I hope?).
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>John
>
>Programmers can choose to have both or not to have both.
>
>I think that it is better if a program can find more correct moves in theory by
>calculation without the need to use books.
>
>Movei that is a free program is not a knowledge based program but most of my
>tests are tests without book when movei only changes the first move.
>
>I believe that it is better to use openings like 1.e4 a5 1.e4 a6...for tests and
>not the known theory.
>
>Uri

I mean better for me.
The point is that I am not interested in tuning movei for some specific line but
to improve it and by changing the first move every game I may get cariety of
positions.

Uri



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