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Subject: Re: good test move ...... Nxe3

Author: bobby palacios

Date: 11:39:30 12/30/02

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On December 30, 2002 at 14:08:03, John Merlino wrote:

>On December 29, 2002 at 21:06:36, bobby palacios wrote:
>
>>[D] 6k1/5pp1/4r2p/P2p2b1/1N4n1/B2RP1P1/2R2PKP/4qB2 b - - 0 34
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>This position arose from TheKing 3.23 - Junior 7 blitz game on my p4 2.4ghz.  I
>>dont know if TheKing 3.23 played the best defensive moves, but it was still a
>>pretty good move that most engines couldnt find (only evaluating it as a draw).
>>It definitely turned the tide of battle.  Junior 7 found it in less than 5
>>seconds with an eval of -0.36 in its favour.
>>
>>The game continued:
>>
>>34...Nxe3  35. fxe3 Rf6  36. Rc1 Qf2+  37. Kh1 Bxe3  38. Rxe3 Qxe3  39. Rc8+ Kh7
>> 40. Bd3+ g6  41. Rc2 Rf2  42. Rxf2 Qxf2  43. a6 f5  44. h4 h5  45. Bc1 Qe1+
>>46. Kh2 Qxc1  0-1
>>
>>And the Queen continued to mop up the remaining pieces.
>
>Chessmaster 9000, on a P3-733, finds Nxe3 in three seconds, and gives it a draw
>score after 15 seconds. Also note that the PV for the draw scores are identical
>to the moves played in the game all the way up to and including 41.Rc2, which is
>14 ply away. So, whatever happened in the game was beyond that search horizon,
>particularly since you said this was a blitz game.
>
>After some fiddling around, it appears that The King needs to get to depth 19
>from the initial position to find the winning move 41...Rf2 instead of
>41...Qf3+.
>
>So, this might be a case of the best move happens to lead to forced moves which
>happens to lead to a win later on, and not even Junior saw the win until several
>moves after 34...Nxe3. I wonder how Junior evaluates the initial position....
>
>Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
>0:00	1/3	2.75	5016		34...Nxh2 35.Rc1 Nf3 36.Rxe1 Nxe1+
>					37.Kh3 Nxd3 38.Bxd3
>0:00	1/3	0.20	6088		34...Rf6 35.f4 Nxe3+ 36.Rxe3 Qxe3
>					37.fxg5
>0:00	1/4	0.38	11223		34...Rf6 35.f4 Nxe3+ 36.Rxe3 Qxe3
>					37.Rc8+ Kh7 38.Bd3+ g6 39.fxg5 hxg5
>0:00	1/5	0.70	43246		34...Rf6 35.f4 Nxe3+ 36.Rxe3 Qxe3
>					37.Bd3 g6 38.fxg5
>0:01	1/6	0.48	80334		34...Rf6 35.f4 Nxe3+ 36.Rxe3 Qxe3
>					37.Bd3 g6 38.fxg5 Qf3+ 39.Kg1 hxg5
>0:02	1/7	0.81	155348		34...Rf6 35.f4 Nxe3+ 36.Rxe3 Qxe3
>					37.Bd3 g6 38.Bc1 Qe1 39.fxg5
>0:03	1/7	0.49	222034		34...Nxe3+ 35.Rxe3 Bxe3 36.Rc8+
>					Kh7 37.Bd3+ g6 38.fxe3 Rxe3 39.Bc1
>					Rxd3 40.Nxd3 Qxa5
>0:05	1/8	0.44	434450		34...Nxe3+ 35.Rxe3 Bxe3 36.Rc8+
>					Kh7 37.Bd3+ g6 38.fxe3 Rxe3 39.Kh3
>					Rxd3 40.Nxd3 Qxa5
>0:15	1/9	0.00	1251756		34...Nxe3+ 35.fxe3 Rf6 36.Rc1 Qf2+
>					37.Kh1 Bxe3 38.Rxe3 Qxe3 39.Rc8+
>					Kh7 40.Bd3+ g6 41.Rc2 Qf3+ 42.Kg1
>					Qd1+ 43.Kg2 Qf3+ 44.Kh3 Qh5+ 45.Kg2
>					Qf3+
>0:25	2/10	0.00	2203649		34...Nxe3+ 35.fxe3 Rf6 36.Rc1 Qf2+
>					37.Kh1 Bxe3 38.Rxe3 Qxe3 39.Rc8+
>					Kh7 40.Bd3+ g6 41.Rc2 Qf3+ 42.Kg1
>					Qd1+ 43.Kg2 Qf3+ 44.Kh3 Qh5+ 45.Kg2
>					Qf3+
>1:18	3/11	0.00	7335333		34...Nxe3+ 35.fxe3 Rf6 36.Rc1 Qf2+
>					37.Kh1 Bxe3 38.Rxe3 Qxe3 39.Rc8+
>					Kh7 40.Bd3+ g6 41.Rc2 Qf3+ 42.Kg1
>					Qd1+ 43.Kg2 Qf3+ 44.Kh3 Qh5+ 45.Kg2
>					Qf3+
>3:48	4/12	0.00	21966467	34...Nxe3+ 35.fxe3 Rf6 36.Rc1 Qf2+
>					37.Kh1 Bxe3 38.Rxe3 Qxe3 39.Rc8+
>					Kh7 40.Bd3+ g6 41.Rc2 Qf3+ 42.Kg1
>					Qd1+ 43.Kg2 Qf3+ 44.Kg1
>
>jm

I let Junior 7 search for 5 minutes (p4 2.4ghz) and it came up with:

Depth 17
34...Nxe3+ 35.fxe3 Rf6 36. Rc1 Qf2+ 37.Kh1 Bxe3 38.Rxe3 Qxe3 39.Bd3 g6 40.Rc8+
Kh7 41.Rc2

with an advantage for black of -0.81

And after 10 minutes:

Depth 18
34...Nxe3+ 35.Rxe3(a better move than fxe3) Bxe3 36.Bd3 Bd4 37.Nc6 Rxc6 38.Re2
Qxf2+ 39.Rxf2 Bxf2 40.Kxf2 Rc3 41.Bb4 Rb3 42.Ke3 Rxb4 43.a6 Ra4

with an advantage for black of  -1.10





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