Author: Les Walker
Date: 12:06:23 09/21/98
Go up one level in this thread
On September 21, 1998 at 08:03:27, Amir Ban wrote: >On September 21, 1998 at 07:02:04, Les Walker wrote: > >>I would like everybody's opinion on this issuse. If you do not have the strength >>to vote on this issue, then do not complain when things do not go the way you >>want them. I feel it is time the majority speaks. THIS MEANS YOU! >> >> >>IMHO >> >>If CCC is unable to solve their differences, which it appears they >>cannot, why not assemble a committee, by vote of CCC >>members, and draw up a club constitution, one which would be >>fair to all. This occurs quite frequently in most privately operated >>clubs. Why can it not be implemented in this case. With a >>constitution, there are rules, guidelines and fairness to all the club >>members. Even in a family environment, there has to be set rules, >>acceptable to everybody, if there is going to be order and to avoid >>chaos. If everybody is following the same rules, life becomes less >>chaotic. Even if there are disagreements, and there will always be >>disagreements, there would still be some order in the club. If rules >>are agreed upon, from the outset, there would be, ultimately, less >>hair splitting. >> >>In American history there was a judge called Judge Roy Bean. >>Bean decided the law, by how he felt, upon any given moment. >>When a accused criminal was brought before Bean, his fate was >>decided by Bean and only Bean. He did not follow any set laws >>or rules. He ruled as if he were the "king" of the land. Please do >>not get me wrong here. I am NOT suggesting that ANYBODY has >>acted in such a way as Bean, but only offer it as an example to >>what *any* organization can become without rules and guidelines >>agreed by the majority. If I were a governing body, or part of, I would >>expect it. Being a Manager for one of (Walmart) the largest chains of >>department stores in the world, I depend upon policy to back me up. >>When I need to reprimand an associate, I NEED company policies >>to implement *proof* that the reprimand is necessary. >> >>I suggested, in a previous post, a challenge to all involved in this >>flame war. I suggested a compromise and an opportunity to reunite >>some of the best minds on this planet. It is rare that this much talent >>is assembled at the same place, for the same, or similar, goals. >>Believe me, I was not acting on naivete when I wrote that post. My >>goal was to generate responses, or lack of, to get an idea of how >>people felt about resolution. Unfortunately, response was disappointing, >>at best. BOTH sides need to give a little and admit they are partially at >>fault in some way. Let's face it right here and now. Resolution will >>NEVER happen unless most people are willing to MAKE it happen. >>Whether it be before Sean departure from CCC, or after, both sides >>have been observed to be wrong at some point, regardless of triviality. >>When I suggested resolution, Sean said it's not that simple. Sean, I never >>suggested it was. When IS peace a simple process? Apparently, the >>nature of man finds it easier to fight than to resolve. >> >>At the risk of being ignored, I will post my challenge a 2nd time. I Les >>CHALLENGE EVERYBODY to WORK toward resolution. To accept >>this challenge, it means you would have to "bite the bullet," "suck it up," >>or whatever you call it. It's all about compromise. War tears us apart >>and makes us weak, and compromise builds strength and unity. It is >>a chess game gentlemen. To play the strongest game possible, all >>pieces MUST be working together, for the same goal - to win. If any >>piece is excluded, or any piece excludes themselves, the game is, >>perhaps, lost. Let us put all of the pieces in the game, so we can all >>win. >> >>What I want to know from you is, do you agree or disagree? Well, what are you >>waiting for? Now is your opportunity to be heard. How do you feel about this >>issue? Don't be shy. >> >> >>Best Regards and Wishes, >> >>Les Walker > > >What is the issue that we are discussing here ? You mention a previous post you >wrote about this. I tried to find it, but couldn't. > >Amir Amir, My apoligies. Here is my previous post. I posted it in the wrong news group. Thank you and kind regards, Les Sean, RGCC, CCC, and all others involved in the "Great Flame War of '98" I am neither choosing sides in this war, nor any of its battles, but I have enjoyed my visits at CCC, and will continue to do so. It's unfortunate that RGCC has become the battle ground for personal disputes in CCC. I will admit to holding great interest in reading the ongoing arguments, and recognizing that both sides make excellent points, but both sides have also been unreasonable at times. I hearby issue a challenge to both sides of the argument(s). The challenge is this: Stop all of this fighting here and now. Let old arguments be old arguments, and allow fresh ground to be plowed. I can almost hear both side's rebuttal already. i.e. - "Well, if he would just.........", or "If they would change....." Come on guys, we are all mature adults and are capable, if willing, to forgive. We would all benefit from such an act. It would also show great integrity on all parties involved. Both CCC, and RGCC are excellent and I have really enjoyed myself since being here. I especially enjoy the theoretical conversations about programming, human Vs computers, etc. I have learned a lot, but sadly, I feel that this Flame War has progressed too far. Can you all not see what this does to the evolution of the concept of these Ng,s? I have read everything I can find, and can see where both sides are right, and where both sides have been wrong. I reiterate: I challenge all parties to forgive and go on. The person to step forward, and say, "Yea, we were both wrong and I am willing to forgive and go on from here," will be the person with great integrity. The person who accepts this challenge, and responds with the same attitude, I am sure we would all show respect, and tip our hats for you. I ask that everybody, PLEASE, consider this challenge. Best Regards, Les W.
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