Author: Drexel,Michael
Date: 14:05:47 01/04/03
Go up one level in this thread
On January 04, 2003 at 16:01:24, S. Trussler wrote: > >Finding a winning line for Botvinnik-Ragozin (5th match game, 1940) > >[D]r1bq2k1/ppp2ppp/2np1n2/8/2PP4/1NP1rB2/P5PP/R1BQ1RK1 b - - 0 1 > >In the posted position, Botvinnik states that if Black plays 12 .... Rxc3 then: > >"Naturally, 12 ..., R X P would also be followed by 13 B-Kt5! and >then Q-Q2, and Black would be quite helpless." > >In the actual game Ragozin instead played 12 ... Re8 and must have recognized >a danger in taking the pawn. > >But in using Deep Fritz 7 on a PIII 750 MHz (hash table = 128MB), I haven't >found a convincing line which renders Black helpless if Black does play >12 ... Rxc3. Perhaps the position requires more positional finesse and >additional moves to realize a winning game for White and this just goes beyond >what DF 7 can find in the time that I allowed it to run. Of course the other >possibility is that Botvinnik overlooked some of Black's defensive resources. >In any case, my analysis actually starts after 12 .... Rxc3 13. Bg5 Rxc4 since >I was interested in the consequences of Black's pawn grabs. As others may find, >if you start instead from 12 ... Rxc3 DF7 actually rates 13. Bxc3 higher than >13. Bg5 but I'm only interested in Botvinnik's 13. Bg5 at the moment. Here is >DF7's analysis of the position after 13 ... Rxc4, when running for just over >9.5 hours: > >M. Botvinnik,S - V. Ragozin >r1bq2k1/ppp2ppp/2np1n2/6B1/2rP4/1N3B2/P5PP/R2Q1RK1 w - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Deep Fritz 7: > >14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Qd3 d5 16.Be4 Nb4 17.Bxh7+ Kg7 > ³ (-0.41) Depth: 6/19 00:00:00 89kN >14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Be4 f5 16.Bd5 Ra4 17.Bxc6 bxc6 18.Qf3 > ³ (-0.47) Depth: 7/20 00:00:00 168kN >14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Be4 f5 16.Bd5 Ra4 17.Bxc6 bxc6 18.Qf3 Be6 19.Qxc6 > ³ (-0.47) Depth: 8/24 00:00:01 366kN >14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Be4 f5 16.Bd5 Ra4 17.Bxc6 bxc6 18.Qf3 Be6 19.Qxc6 > ³ (-0.47) Depth: 9/28 00:00:03 985kN >14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Bd5 Ra4 16.Qh5 Be6 17.Be4 f5 18.Bxf5 Bxf5 19.Qxf5 Kh8 20.Rab1 > ³ (-0.37) Depth: 10/29 00:00:10 3618kN >14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Qd3 d5 16.Be4 dxe4 17.Qxc4 Be6 18.Qc3 Bxb3 19.Qxb3 Qxd4+ 20.Kh1 >Re8 > ³ (-0.50) Depth: 11/30 00:00:25 9440kN >14.Bd5! > ³ (-0.47) Depth: 11/30 00:00:34 13105kN >14.Bd5 Rb4 15.Bxf6 gxf6 16.Qe1 Rb5 17.Qg3+ Kh8 18.Bxc6 bxc6 19.Rac1 Rg5 20.Qf3 >Bd7 21.Nd2 > ³ (-0.50) Depth: 12/33 00:01:13 28831kN >14.Bd5 Ra4 15.Bxf6 gxf6 16.Qh5 Be6 17.Be4 f5 18.Bxf5 Bxf5 19.Rxf5 > ³ (-0.41) Depth: 13/36 00:04:23 107007kN >14.Bd5 Ra4 15.Bxf6 gxf6 16.Qh5 Be6 17.Be4 f5 18.Bxf5 Bxf5 19.Rxf5 Qe7 > ³ (-0.47) Depth: 14/38 00:09:01 222199kN >14.Bxf6! > ³ (-0.44) Depth: 14/43 00:11:28 281703kN >14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Qd2 d5 16.Be2 Qd6 17.Rae1 Rb4 18.Bh5 Ne7 19.Qh6 Rb6 > ³ (-0.41) Depth: 15/41 00:33:04 816644kN >14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Qd2 d5 16.Be2 f5 17.Bd3 Be6 18.Rf4 Ra4 19.Raf1 Qe7 20.Bb5 > ³ (-0.28) Depth: 16/45 01:27:08 2159012kN >14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Qd2 d5 16.Be2 f5 17.Bd3 Be6 18.Rf4 Rb4 19.Bxf5 Bxf5 > = (-0.25) Depth: 17/45 03:46:27 5282647kN >14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Qd2 d5 16.Be2 f5 17.Rae1 Be6 18.Rf3 Qf6 19.Bxc4 dxc4 20.d5 > = (-0.25) Depth: 18/51 09:46:32 13641581kN > >Not a winning position for white (according to DF7) at this point, although >there has been some improvement for White since the DF7's initial evaluation >and perhaps White's eval. will increase further if the analysis is continued >from 20. d5. > >Anyone with more horsepower and/or different software find anything better? > > >Regards, >Shaun Trussler just look at the position after 15...d5. Black is three pawns up and what did your engine say? (-0.25) that indicates that white has huge positional advantage. Blacks King position is very week and the black rook at c4 is out of play. Im almost sure that this is a forced win for white. 16.Be2 f5 17.Tae1 is strong. never consider to take the rook at c4. improve your position instead and see how evaluations change.
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