Author: Chris
Date: 00:15:55 01/07/03
Go up one level in this thread
On January 06, 2003 at 16:57:11, Uri Blass wrote: >On January 06, 2003 at 14:32:18, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On January 06, 2003 at 14:15:00, Chris wrote: >> >>>On January 06, 2003 at 14:06:54, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On January 06, 2003 at 12:45:28, Chris wrote: >>>> >>>>>Some people here seems to doubt that it is possible to beat the top engines, but >>>>>I found out that you can still do it with the normal means of setting up the >>>>>Stonewall as White. >>>>> >>>>>These games was of course played without takeback or other kinds of cheating. >>>>> >>>>>My OTB ELO is 2230 and I have studied computer weaknesses a lot. >>>>> >>>>>After this game, I lost six in a row, and I decided that maybe I need some more >>>>>time the next time I challenge Fritz :-) I believe I would have a better chance >>>>>at tournament speed. >>>> >>>>I believe that at tournament speed Fritz8 also can play better. >>>>It is possible that it will not let you to win by the same strategy and the only >>>>way to know is to try. >>>> >>>>It is a mistake to get a conclusion from speed chess about tournament time >>>>control games. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>> >>> >>>I believe Fritz would be stronger tactically in a longer game, but I don't think >>>it would change so much strategically. I was getting into this position by >>>following its book. >> >> >>If the book has no errors then the question is simply if Fritz does the same >>mistakes if you give it some minutes to calculate. >> >>I do not know what is the point when Fritz8 starts to show negative evaluation. >> >>analyzing with yace and going backward so yace can learn shows that yace see a >>clear advantage for white after 31...hxg6(1.84 pawns) >> >>Yace learned the following line >>31...hxg6 32.fxg6 Rff8 33.Ng3 f5 34.Nxf5 Qe6 35.Qg5 Kg8 36.Qh5 Rxf5 37.Bxf5 >>Qxe3+ 38.Kc2 Qxg1 39.Qh7+ Kf8 40.Qh8+ Ke7 41.Qxg7+ Kd6 >> +- (1.84) >> >> >>Yace does not like 31...hxg6 after learning the line and I have the following >>analysis >> >>[D]4r2k/p3qrpp/2b2pP1/3p1P1N/2pP1Q1P/2P1P3/P1BK4/6R1 b - - 0 1 >> >> >> >>Analysis >> >>31...Rff8 32.gxh7 Rf7 33.Qg3 Kxh7 34.Nf4 Kg8 35.h5 Qc7 36.h6 Rfe7 37.Ng6 Rd7 >>38.Qxc7 >> = (-0.23) Depth: 13 00:01:32 33598kN >>31...Rff8 32.gxh7 Rf7 33.Qg3 Kxh7 34.Nf4 Kg8 35.h5 Kh7 36.Ne6 Kh8 37.Qg6 Bd7 >>38.h6 Bxe6 >> = (0.11) Depth: 14 00:04:29 94591kN >>31...Rff8 32.gxh7 Rf7 33.Qg3 Kxh7 34.Nf4 Qd7 35.Ne6 Kh8 36.h5 Qe7 37.Qg6 Bd7 >>38.h6 >> = (0.11) Depth: 15 00:16:59 324004kN >> >>(blass, tel-aviv 06.01.2003) >> >>Uri > >Yace needs a long analysis to see that 31...Rff8 is also bad > >The score continues to drop and I stopped it before waiting until it finish >iteration 17. > > > ² (0.48) Depth: 16 00:45:34 895399kN >31...Rff8 32.gxh7 Rf7 33.Qg3 Kxh7 34.Nf4 Rb8 35.Qf3 Qd6 36.Qh5+ Kg8 37.Rg2 Be8 >38.Ng6 Rfb7 39.Qh8+ Kf7 40.Ne5+ Ke7 41.Rxg7+ Kd8 42.Rg8 Rb2 43.Rxe8+ Kc7 > ± (0.88) Depth: 17 01:41:40 2047157kN >31...Rff8 32.gxh7 Rf7 33.Qg3 > ± (0.88) Depth: 17 02:32:48 3034226kN > >(blass, tel-aviv 07.01.2003) > > >I can add that yace suggests 30...Rg8 after all this learning so it can reply >g6 by h6. > >After 30...Rg8 it can see 31.gxf6 as the best move. > >There are 2 questions here > >1)Is it correct to assume that 30...Rg8 is better and 30...Rf7 was the losing >move? >2)How much time do programs need to avoid 30...Rf7? > >Uri Yes, I agree. My analysis also shows that 30...Rg8 was better. 30...Rf7 is losing. I didn't test how much time different programs need, but it could be interesting to see. When I said that I believe I would do better at tournament control, it is because experience shows that humans gain relatively more from a time increase. That is a fact shown by many years of experience.
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