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Subject: Re: Trading Down to Endgame

Author: Aaron Tay

Date: 03:32:12 01/07/03

Go up one level in this thread


On January 06, 2003 at 18:00:04, Terry McCracken wrote:

>On January 06, 2003 at 10:16:22, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On January 06, 2003 at 09:36:53, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>The concept of "trading down to a won endgame" and similar ideas such as
>>>avoiding a dangerous attack by trading down to an equal or slightly inferior
>>>endgame seem conceptually simple.
>>>
>>>Endgame knowledge is available everywhere.  For example:
>>>
>>>The recent publication, "Fundamental Chess Endings" by Karsten Muller and Frank
>>>Lamprecht, copyright 2001, Gambit Publications, Inc., ISBN 1901983536, includes
>>>a table at the back of the book titled "Table of Computer Database Results for
>>>Pawnless Endings."  This table provides "endgame knowledge" information, which
>>>could be [and probably is] used by chess engine programmers.  Similar
>>>information appears elsewhere in the written chess literature.
>>>
>>>A chess engine position evaluation could check to see if the position matches up
>>>with one of the known endgame types.  [This might take special dedicated
>>>software.]  Then the knowledge could be used to determine whether or not to
>>>exchange down to that endgame.  I'm sure [??] that modern chess programs do
>>>something like that, although perhaps not aimed at making an "exchange down or
>>>not to exchange down" type of "decision."
>>>
>>>The idea that a position would receive a numerical value is common.  But is it
>>>really necessary that search choices be based solely on such numerical
>>>evaluations?  Perhaps modern chess engines are not that simplistic?
>>>
>>>In summary:  I don't see why a chess engine should have any trouble at all in
>>>positions where exchanging down to an endgame is indicated.  What am I missing?
>>>
>>>Bob D.
>>
>>
>>Nothing.  This is done by many programs now, mine included.  Not all understand
>>key ingredients such as distant pawn majorities, but most recognize classes of
>>endgames that are favorable to them...
>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Check my post.
>
>I think it's important for machines to be given lessons, beyond EGTBS for
>such positions.
>
>The book is wrote, we don't neglect it, and programmers work hard on the
>middlegame, but these relatively simple K+P endings get little attention.
>
>I haven't tried Crafty on this following position.
>
>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?275232
>
>Terry

More damaging is that crafty fails the second one here

http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?275366

Very disappointing given that crafty is reputed to understand the value of
distant passed pawns and potential passed pawns.






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