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Subject: Re: KRRPKQ ending and practical human play

Author: Marc Bourzutschky

Date: 17:55:40 01/07/03

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On January 07, 2003 at 20:48:19, Ricardo Gibert wrote:

>On January 07, 2003 at 20:40:11, Marc Bourzutschky wrote:
>
>>The 50-move rule is irrelevant to endgame studies, which is what this is about.
>
>
>I seriously doubt if anyone is ever going to expend the effort to actually
>understand the ending you gave.
>
>BTW, since the analysis you gave is based on a DTM (=Distance To Mate) EGTB, we
>don't really know if it is drawn due to the 50-move rule or not.
>

Since many moves in the solution are unique, it is extremely unlikely that a DTZ
(=Distance to zero counter) will shave off a significant number of moves,
certainly not the over 100 required to get within the 50-move rule.

>
>>
>>On January 07, 2003 at 20:29:07, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>
>>>On January 07, 2003 at 20:14:11, Edward Seid wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 07, 2003 at 19:45:04, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>What's subtle about it? Black draws easily thanks to the 50-move rule rendering
>>>>>most of this analysis as irrelevant.
>>>>
>>>>The 50-move rule was created by tournament directors and organizers to address
>>>>practical tournament play, before computer use was widespread.  After computer
>>>>analysis proved that some endings could still be won but would take longer than
>>>>50-moves, certain special case endings were allowed to extend beyond 50 moves in
>>>>tournament play.
>>>
>>>
>>>All the special cases were eliminated in the lastest version of the 50 move
>>>rule. You must mate within 50 moves now or it is a draw. An exception is only
>>>made when the organizer declares before the event which type of positions are
>>>excepted, but nobody ever does this. Such positions are too rare to bother with.
>>>
>>>
>>>>The current analysis shows that in the case of KRRPKQ, with perfect play from
>>>>both sides, that the superior side could take MUCH LONGER than 50 moves.
>>>>
>>>>So I disagree with you when you say that a forced winning line is irrelevant
>>>>because of a rule that humans created to expedite human tournament play.



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