Author: Peter W. Gillgasch
Date: 19:22:59 09/22/98
Go up one level in this thread
On September 22, 1998 at 13:58:05, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On September 22, 1998 at 07:47:21, Amir Ban wrote: > >>On September 21, 1998 at 23:58:51, Peter W. Gillgasch wrote: >> >> >>>A bad mistake. While witch hunt seems currently to be en vogue in your >>>part of the world you need to learn how to deal with unpleasant >>>situations without making someone look to bad. >>> >> >>There's indeed a sense of failure on our part in the result, but while I would >>like to learn how to deal more effectively with such situations your superficial >>approach doesn't really show that you have anything to teach here. Superficial maybe. I certainly don't want to teach anyone, so I don't need to show that I can. I have no idea what to do about this, it just shows (to me, IMHO etc) that the community simply is not able to get along with each other. >>The decision to remove Thorsten was taken unanimously by all 3 moderators. The >>"Thorsten" crisis started in early August, and had several waves of increasing >>intensity. The moderators initially did not even want to consider the >>possibility of removing Thorsten, and as Bruce said, the decision to do so was >>taken a bit late because we were trying to find more peaceful solutions, or just >>hoping the problem would somehow go away. >> >>The final decision was not taken casually. It was taken because Thorsten became >>in the final week a major disturbance, attacking not only his usual targets >>(which with some hair-raising allegations are bad enough) but some innocent >>bystanders as well, sometimes using some of the lowest language ever used on >>this message board. It had to be done, because for two weeks in a row he was >>actually baiting a person here (two different people, one each week), hounding >>him wherever that person posted and flooding him with insults and foul language. I see (and I believe) that you tried your best. No doubts about that. >>The only alternative to doing what we did would be to tell the person he's >>baiting is that since Thorsten doesn't like him any more he had better take his >>business elsewhere. Do you suggest doing that ? Certainly not. >>It was done also because we have more or less exhausted the alternatives. We >>tried ignoring, mediating, hinting, pleading, threatening. I personally have >>about 20 email messages to/from mclane in this period. >> >> >>>Possible solution would be to remove offensive posts without completely >>>booting the guy. >>> >> >>Was already tried on a large scale in August. Put him on a "prescan posts" list. If you remove the posts later the damage is done since other persons are offended. The case of Thorsten shows that the current moderation scheme does not work. >>>In the case of Thorsten the loss is way to big. He may be acting like >>>a madman sometimes, but he was one the most interesting posters around >>>here and I never felt that he was a notoric trouble maker and when you >>>talk with him via private email you quickly realize that he is a >>>sensible person. I am sure that you will be surprised how much you >>>will miss him. >> >>Both Bruce and I know Thorsten in person, and would agree to your description. I >>am glad to say that I am still on good relations with him (one of the last few >>on CCC with this status, it seems). Much of the leeway that the moderators have >>given him was because we thought that basically his matter is under control. In >>the past two weeks, though, I found him to be completely unresponsive (something >>that came through on the message board too, I think), and indeed in my last >>email to him I was frustrated enough to tell him he was behave like an autistic >>person. >> >> >>>This server is quickly falling into oblivion. >>> >> >>It's a serious event indeed. I'm sure that the founders of CCC only intended to >>keep out the unimportant riff-raff, and never intended that they themselves >>would find themselves outside. That this is now happening is a good measure of >>the collective mental health of our field, which is not so good ever since the >>SSDF list of February. Agreed. >>Amir > > >I also hate to see Thorsten "gone". The only thing I would add is that if you >go back over many of the threads where Thorsten "went over the top" you might >find, on close inspection, that there was definite "goading" going on. > >IE he started a tournament, which he is perfectly justified in doing, and he >gets criticized for multiple reasons... can't reproduce the CSTal moves because >he uses an experimental version... can't reproduce the fritz moves because the >book randomness is, by its nature, random... can't believe that CSTal is doing >so well or Fritz is doing so bad... Ed points out a book flaw, Thorsten replays >the game, then gets jumped on for doing so... > >IE a normal human can/will only take so much of that before becoming agitated >and "striking back". Right. >It's sad to see Thorsten leave. I've never met him, but learned to talk with >him and enjoyed his posts here. Where *were* more interesting than most of what >goes on. They will be missed, by me at least. Probably by others. > >We have recent made a change in the Crafty mailing list that is working very >well. I and IM Mark Diesen are the "moderators" of that group. Every email >comes to us. We can ignore (which drops them in the toilet, and we do this for >the occasional spam stuff that comes along, like "make money fast") or we can >simply reply to them which gets them posted to the list. > >This would be a better moderation scheme here, if doable, so that these threads >can be clipped a little easier... if the post doesn't "pass muster" it never >gets seen, never offends anyone, and things run smoother. It is not as good >to let an insult be seen, then delete it, because the damage has been done... > >Just a suggestion... It puts more stress on the moderators. But if this is not doable then your web based forum is pretty much doomed. This is not neccessarily a failure of yours, or a failure of your concept. It is a failure of the community. I am always amazed when I get further evidence that we are all mad :( -- Peter
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