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Subject: Re: Validating the Nunn positions

Author: Roger D Davis

Date: 22:06:19 01/08/03

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On January 08, 2003 at 15:40:21, Rajen Gupta wrote:

>On January 08, 2003 at 15:18:18, Roger D Davis wrote:
>
>>We occasionally see posts where engines take turns playing the Nunn positions,
>>the idea being to give the engines an equal footing, but with some development.
>>But has anyone looked at whether white or black wins more often for each Nunn
>>position? Presumably, if white wins some 55% of the time for all openings (or
>>whatever the figure it, consult your database), then the same should hold true
>>for the Nunn positions: Given equal engines, white should win 55% of the time.
>>
>>Some large inequality between white or black would indicate that a particular
>>position ought to be deleted from the set, or some other position substituted.
>>
>>Roger
>
>i see the point that you are trying to make ie that there maybe some positions
>that are not strictly neutral to begin with; however each engine gets an equal
>bite at the cherry so to speak and even if a particular position were to
>inherently favour one colour, both engines get to play that colour and the final
>result depends upon which engine can win more often; so i guess the nunn
>positions are a pretty good test for evaluating engines; however the valid
>argument is that programmers can tune their engines to perfom well on these
>tests;

Yes, each side gets an equal bite at the cherry, since the programs switch
sides. But if this is all there is to it, then I might as well pick my own
positions, and say that my suite is as good as Nunn's. My point: The defining
characteristic of the Nunn suite is that the stronger engine can be expected to
win approximately half the time (or 55% as white and 45% as black, assuming the
initiative is worth 5%, an approximation). Accordingly, it becomes necessary to
validate the positions themselves.

Consider: Let's say we have a set of positions that favor white 90% of the time,
and two development engines we want to compare. Neither has a good book yet.
So...we run the engines through the suite, and find that with the white pieces,
each engine wins 90% of the time, because the characteristics of the positions
swamp any differences between the engines. Lesson: As the positions approach
equality, finer differences in the strength of the engines can be revealed.

So there is really something to say for validating the positions.

Roger



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