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Subject: Re: Null Move Pruning and Draw Detection

Author: Richard Pijl

Date: 03:54:59 01/15/03

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On January 15, 2003 at 06:12:23, David Rasmussen wrote:

>Since null moves are illegal in the real game, it is not obvious how it affects
>or should affect repetitions and the fifty move rule.
>What I do now in Chezzz is just pretty much ignore the relation between these
>concepts and formulate them as if they were formulated in isolation.
>What is the correct way to deal with these things?
>For instance:
>
>1. What to do with the fifty moves rule counter when doing a null move?

I think in situations where you have not done any captures or pawn moves for
30-40 moves nullmove pruning may yield little result as the programs often are
'nullmoving' with real moves anyway. I haven't done experiments with it yet but
I seriously consider turning nullmove off when the 50 moves counter reaches 35.
But whatever you do, the overall effect in your engine is probably close to zero
...

>2. When doing a null move, we obtain a new position, one that can never be
>   on the board immedeately after the currect position in a real game, but
>   it is treated as a "normal" position. What if a "repetition" is found of
>   two of these "imaginary" positions in the current line? We would return a
>   draw (that is what I do, since I treat these positions as all others, as do
>   most programs I've seen, Crafty for instance).

I think that when you're getting a repetition in search (so it appears twice in
search) you can safely return draw. If the first occurrence happens before a
nullmove, there is no progress so it probably won't produce a cuttoff as it is
likely the repetition (or better) can be reached by not null-moving.

Richard.

>
>I understand the need for draw detection and I understand the benefits of null
>move pruning, but I think they affect eachother in an unclear way. What do
>others do, and is there a way that is *correct*, and why?
>
>/David



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