Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Endgame speed and evaluation

Author: scott farrell

Date: 09:52:59 01/17/03

Go up one level in this thread


On January 17, 2003 at 01:20:23, Omid David Tabibi wrote:

>On January 17, 2003 at 00:48:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On January 16, 2003 at 20:29:54, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>
>>>[D] 4k3/8/8/p1p1p1p1/PpPpPpPp/1P1P1P1P/8/4K3 w - - 0 1
>>>
>>>At the above position, some programs (e.g. Fritz, Hiarcs, Crafty) reach their
>>>maximum depth in a second or two (see the Crafty analysis below), while others
>>>(e.g. Tiger, Shredder) need more time as they search deeper (Tiger for example
>>>quickly reaches depth 20, and then slowly goes deeper and deeper, see the Tiger
>>>analysis below. For Genesis it takes about 4 minutes to reach depth 60). What is
>>>different in the former class which enables them to quickly reach the max depth?
>>>
>>
>>This is a hashing problem.  There are not many unique positions, so hashing
>>should cause the search to be very efficient...  nothing but king moves helps
>>this even more.
>>
>
>There are only 16 (white) x 24 (black) x 2 (sides) = 768 unique positions. But
>still normally you cannot retrieve everything from hash table: Let's say you
>have a position stored in hash table with depth 30, but now you need a depth 31
>search, so you cannot use the hash result; after the next iteration you will
>need a result for depth 32 and so on and so on...
>
>Genesis gets about 30% hash hits from the above position.
>
>
>>
>>>Another interesting point is that Crafty (and many others) gradually reduce the
>>>score as they searches deeper (in the below log you can see that at depth 47
>>>Crafty gives the score 0), while some others like Tiger, remain with their fixed
>>>score (-0.24 in the log below). Based on what factors is the score reduced in
>>>Crafty?
>>>
>>
>>Probably draw by repetition.  The side that is behind won't move his king very
>>far from the original square.  The other side will try every possible square
>>but after 40+ plies he runs out of new squares and the other side can force a
>>repetition.
>
>If so, then why doesn't that happen with all the engines? Tiger never changes
>the score; Genesis reached the depth 80 and never changed the score (and to the
>best of my knowledge Genesis doesn't have any repetition detection bugs).
>Besides, the score drop is usually gradual, not a sudden change to 0.

My chompster engine has some experimental blockade detection, the score starts
around0.05 and gets to 0.0 by ply 8 with about 2000 nodes. And depth20 has only
20000 nodse, and a score of 0.0 still.

I am thinking other commerical might have bloackade detection, and if they did,
they would behave markedly different to those that did not.

Scott



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.