Author: Uri Blass
Date: 11:49:33 01/23/03
Go up one level in this thread
On January 23, 2003 at 14:18:44, Odd Gunnar Malin wrote: >On January 23, 2003 at 13:10:01, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On January 23, 2003 at 12:56:01, K. Burcham wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> [D] 2k4r/1pp2ppp/p1p1bn2/4N3/1q1rP3/2N1Q3/PPP2PPP/R4RK1 w - - 0 1 >>> >>>Deep Shredder 7 >>> >>> 8/23 0:01 +0.84++ 14.Nd5 Qa4 15.Nxf6 Qxc2 16.Qxd4 Qxf2+ 17.Rxf2 (581.238) >>>539.1 >>> 8/23 0:01 +0.93 14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.cxd4 Nxe4 17.Rab1 Qxa2 18.Rfc1 >>>(738.043) 549.1 >>> 9/20 0:01 +0.94 14.Nd5 Bxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.cxd4 Bxe4 17.Nxf7 Re8 18.Ne5 Kb8 >>>(1.094.627) 560.4 >>> 10/25 0:02 +1.19++ 14.Nd5 Bxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Nxe4 17.Qa7 Bxa2 18.Rad1 >>>Qxc3 (1.669.623) 562.3 >>> 10/25 0:03 +1.31 14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5 >>>Nxd5 19.c4 Nc3 (2.017.320) 576.3 >>> 11/24 0:05 +1.17 14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5 >>>Nxd5 19.c4 Nc3 20.Rfe1 Rd8 (3.322.082) 584.0 >>> 12/32 0:12 +1.23 14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5 >>>Nxd5 19.Rfe1 Rd8 20.c4 Nb4 21.a3 (7.400.745) 598.0 >>> 13/32 0:27 +1.29 14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5 >>>Nxd5 19.Rfe1 f6 20.Nc4 b5 21.Rxe6 bxc4 (16.428.560) 588.7 >>> 14/34 0:56 +1.29 14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5 >>>Nxd5 19.Rfe1 Rd8 (32.534.857) 578.0 >>> 15/35 2:08 +1.12 14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5 >>>Nxd5 19.Rfe1 f6 20.Nc4 b5 21.Nb6+ Nxb6 22.Rxe6 Nc4 (73.386.716) 570.7 >>> 16/42 5:04 +1.21 14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5 >>>Nxd5 19.Rfe1 f6 20.Nd3 Re8 21.Rac1 Kd7 22.c4 Nc7 23.f3 (171.076.885) 562.6 >>> 17/42 11:02 +1.05 14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5 >>>Nxd5 19.Rfe1 Rd8 20.Rad1 b5 21.c4 (368.094.871) 555.9 >>> 18/45 28:29 +1.14 14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5 >>>Nxd5 19.Rfe1 b5 20.Rac1 Nb6 21.Rc2 Rd8 22.Nf3 Bd5 23.Nd4 a5 (938.327.084) 548.9 >>> 19/51 64:11 +1.09 14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5 >>>Nxd5 19.Rfe1 Rd8 20.a4 f6 21.Nd3 Rd6 22.Nb4 (2.087.116.335) 541.8 >>>best move: Nc3-d5 time: 66:20.750 min n/s: 541.737 CPU 199.7% nodes: >>>2.156.519.795 >>> >>> >>>Deep Fritz 7: >>> >>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.cxd4 dxe4 4.Rfb1 Qc2 >>> ± (0.72) Depth: 7/21 00:00:00 331kN >>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.cxd4 dxe4 4.Rfb1 Qc2 >>> ± (0.72) Depth: 8/21 00:00:00 663kN >>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.c4 >>> ± (0.84) Depth: 9/25 00:00:00 1040kN >>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.c4 Nc3 7.Rfe1 >>> ± (0.81) Depth: 10/23 00:00:01 2448kN >>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.c4 Nc3 7.Rfe1 >>> ± (0.81) Depth: 11/24 00:00:04 7495kN >>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Rfe1 Rd8 7.Rac1 b5 >>>8.c4 >>> ² (0.69) Depth: 12/29 00:00:10 16436kN >>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Rfe1 Rd8 7.Rac1 Nf4 >>>8.c4 >>> ± (0.72) Depth: 13/32 00:00:30 48792kN >>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Rfe1 Rd8 7.a4 f6 8.Nc4 >>>Kd7 >>> ² (0.66) Depth: 14/36 00:01:12 115903kN >>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Rfe1 b5 7.Rac1 f6 >>> ² (0.56) Depth: 15/39 00:03:28 334758kN >>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Rfe1 b5 7.Rac1 Nc7 >>>8.a3 >>> ² (0.56) Depth: 16/40 00:09:44 930188kN >>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Rfe1 Rd8 7.Rad1 b5 >>>8.a3 f6 >>> ² (0.53) Depth: 17/42 00:20:35 1983548kN >>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Rfe1 Rd8 7.a4 Nf4 >>>8.Rab1 >>> ² (0.63) Depth: 18/49 01:03:57 6138332kN >>> >>> >>>[Site "Triberg"] >>>[Date "1934"] >>>[White "Bogoljubov, E"] >>>[Black "Muller"] >>>[Result "1-0"] >>>[ECO "C68"] >>> >>>1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Bxc6 dxc6 5. Nc3 >>>Bc5 6. d3 Qe7 7. Be3 Nf6 8. Bxc5 Qxc5 9. Qd2 >>>Bg4 10. d4 Qb4 11. Nxe5 O-O-O 12. O-O Rxd4 13. Qe3 >>>Be6 14. Nd5 Qc5 15. Qxd4 Qxd4 16. Ne7+ Kb8 17. N7xc6+ >>>bxc6 18. Nxc6+ 1-0 >>> >>>kburcham >> >>Thanks for the analysis but the question is if white can win >> >>It is clear that black in the game did not choose the best defence. >>The right move is simply to capture the knight. >> >>+0.6 or even +1 is not a convincing score to prove that white can win and I am >>still not sure about it. >> >>Uri > >I guess the lines which probably got it into the book are: >14.Nd5! cxd 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxb4 dxe? 17.Ra7 (threat Qa8#) Nd7 18.Rfb1 and winning >the queen. >14.Nd5! Qc5 15.Ne7+ Kb8 16.Nxc6+ bxc 17.Nxc6+ and winning the queen. > >A move like 14.Rd1 is 'a hope the opponent blunder' move 14...Rxd1 15.Rxd1 >Qxb2?? 16.Qa7 +- > >I guess doing 14.Rd1 as a quiet move (taking the d-file) is judged as taking a >useless file because the heavy pieces disappear. > >Garding the b-pawn with 14.Nd3 is accepting that black stands better. > >With 14.Nd5 you are at least half a pawn up for nothing so I think this is a >good test. Whether it is enough to win or not isn't so important as long as it >is the best move and the engine have to see a little into it to get it. > >Odd Gunnar >Odd Gunnar Latest Movei(that is probably the best movei so far) finds 14.Nd5 but changes it's mind later to 14.Nd3 The reason is the fact that I teached it about isolated pawns(0.1 pawns panelty for every isolated pawn). Movei also evaluate the difference beteen rook and bishop only as 1.5 pawns and not 2 pawns. It can help it to avoid bad trades of rook and pawn against bishop and knight. Maybe I should reduce the value of the bishop and the knight or increase the value of the rook by 0.2 pawns but the point is that Nd3 is evaluated as close to 0.5 pawn advantage for white(I find that Fritz8 also evaluates the position after Nd3 as more than 0.3 pawns for white so the difference between Movei's evaluation and Fritz8's evaluation is not big). Uri
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