Author: Uri Blass
Date: 12:35:10 01/28/03
Go up one level in this thread
On January 28, 2003 at 10:00:53, Uri Blass wrote: >On January 28, 2003 at 08:55:00, Peter Berger wrote: > >>On January 28, 2003 at 07:18:26, Jorge Pichard wrote: >> >>>On January 28, 2003 at 06:36:18, Peter Berger wrote: >>> >> >>>>That's IMHO the best conclusion I read about game 1: >>>> >>>>"All I can say is that if this match comes down to a competition of Kasparov and >>>>Dokhoian's preparation against Alterman's, Junior is going to be Deep all right. >>>>Deep-sixed, Deep trouble, and in Deep doo-doo." >>> >>First, I am pretty convinced that Junior will also play much more successful >>games in this match. >> >>>The solution is simple, instead of using a huge Opening Book against Kasparov, >>>Alterman should only include a special Opening Book where the outcome has been >>>either Draw or win agains Kasparov. Remember any draw in the past against >>>Kasparov has to be considered an excellent Opening choice, since at his level to >>>come out even from the Opening Stage and be able to draw against him is an >>>excellent accomplishment. There are hundreth of games against Karpov, Kramnik, >>>Anand and Shirov where they can collect Openings used against Kasparov. >>>Therefore, a special Opening Book with those games should NOT be that hard to >>>collect. >>> >> >>I don't think this would work as you expect it to do at all. Think of openings >>like the Kings Indian which would be very prominent in your book - Junior >>wouldn't be happy to have to play it with the black pieces I suppose :). >> >>The problem is not so much with selection of moves that have been played in >>games but with moves that have never been played but are well-known anyway. Not >>trusting bookmoves solves only one half of the problem ( given that the engine >>can find better ones by itself, which is also not so clear). >>Much information is in published (or unpublished, ouch) analysis. If you look in >>an online database like chesslive there are many lines that were once popular >>but were refuted later or went out of fashion. Sometimes the reasons are obvious >>- there are one or two games that spoilt the system and it should theoretically >>be possible to get sth like that with technical means. >> >>But sometimes it's different - a line just vanishes and if you look at the games >>played with it there is no obvious reason. I expect that in this case often >>either analysis published or homework showed problems that were never revealed >>in games. >> >>Although not exactly fitting, I like this article very much: >>http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kibitz24.txt - which I studied yesterday evening. >>It's just a tiny example but I assume in the workbooks of masters there is >>_much_ more like it. >> >>Regards, >>Peter > >I can only say that axb5 is suggested by chess programs. > >I already read it in this forum few weeks ago when a player described his wins >against chess programs with this move so the fact that axb5 is good is not news >from yesterday. > >Old Deep Fritz6 on old hardware(p850) has no problem to find it and Junior7 can >find it even faster. > >I also think that authors of opening books should care to use computers program >to analyze every position in the books and give notes about moves that are >suggested by programs even if they think that the moves are bad. > > >Here is the analysis of Deep Fritz and Junior7(Fritz8 is not installed in the >p850 that I use now but I guess that it also can find axb5). > >New game - Deep Fritz >[D]5rk1/6pp/p1pbr3/1p1n1p2/P2P2b1/1BPQB1Pq/1P1N1P1P/R3R1K1 w - f6 0 1 > >Analysis by Deep Fritz: > >19.Bxd5 cxd5 20.axb5 > ± (1.19) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 >19.Bxd5 cxd5 20.axb5 axb5 21.Qxb5 > ± (1.19) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 >19.Bxd5 cxd5 20.axb5 f4 > +- (1.41) Depth: 3/15 00:00:00 1kN >19.Bxd5 cxd5 20.axb5 f4 21.gxf4 Bxf4 > ± (1.16) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 3kN >19.Bxd5-- > ± (0.84) Depth: 5/19 00:00:00 18kN >19.Bxd5-- cxd5 20.axb5 f4 21.gxf4 Bxf4 22.Nf1 > ± (0.72) Depth: 5/24 00:00:00 23kN >19.Bg5! > ± (0.75) Depth: 5/25 00:00:00 53kN >19.Bg5! Rxe1+ 20.Rxe1 Qh5 21.f4 bxa4 > ± (0.78) Depth: 5/25 00:00:00 61kN >19.Bg5 Rxe1+ 20.Rxe1 Qh5 21.f4 Re8 22.Rxe8+ Qxe8 > ± (0.91) Depth: 6/26 00:00:00 131kN >19.Bg5-- > ² (0.59) Depth: 7/26 00:00:00 450kN >19.Bg5-- f4 20.Rxe6 Bxe6 21.axb5 fxg3 22.fxg3 axb5 > ² (0.56) Depth: 7/28 00:00:00 592kN >19.Qf1! > ² (0.59) Depth: 7/28 00:00:01 1087kN >19.Qf1! Qxf1+ 20.Nxf1 Kf7 21.axb5 axb5 22.Ra6 Rc8 23.Nd2 > ± (0.78) Depth: 7/28 00:00:01 1286kN >19.Qf1 Qxf1+ 20.Nxf1 Kf7 21.axb5 axb5 22.Ra7+ Kg6 23.Ra6 Rc8 24.Nd2 > ± (0.78) Depth: 8/27 00:00:02 1600kN >19.Qf1 Qxf1+ 20.Nxf1 Kf7 21.axb5 axb5 22.Ra7+ Kg6 23.Ra6 Rc8 24.Nd2 Kf6 > ± (0.78) Depth: 9/29 00:00:04 3384kN >19.Bg5! > ± (0.81) Depth: 9/30 00:00:05 4220kN >19.Bg5! f4 20.Rxe6 Bxe6 21.axb5 fxg3 22.fxg3 axb5 23.Ra6 > ± (0.91) Depth: 9/30 00:00:07 5546kN >19.Bg5-- > ² (0.59) Depth: 10/32 00:00:12 9268kN >19.Bg5-- > ² (0.59) Depth: 10/32 00:00:13 10031kN >19.axb5! > ² (0.63) Depth: 10/32 00:00:16 12163kN >19.axb5! f4 20.Bxf4 Bxf4 21.Rxe6 Bxe6 22.bxa6 Ra8 23.Bc4 Bxd2 24.Qxd2 Ra7 > ² (0.69) Depth: 10/32 00:00:17 13145kN >19.Qf1! > ± (0.72) Depth: 10/32 00:00:19 14648kN >19.Qf1! bxa4 20.Rxa4 f4 21.Bxf4 Qxf1+ 22.Rxf1 Bxf4 23.gxf4 Re2 24.Nc4 Rb8 > ± (0.78) Depth: 10/32 00:00:22 16947kN >19.Qf1 bxa4 20.Rxa4 f4 21.Qxh3 Bxh3 22.Rxa6 fxe3 23.fxe3 Rc8 24.e4 Kf7 > ² (0.63) Depth: 11/33 00:00:32 23828kN >19.Qf1 Qh5 20.f4 Kh8 21.Bxd5 cxd5 22.axb5 Qe8 23.Qd3 Qxb5 24.Qxb5 axb5 > ² (0.69) Depth: 12/34 00:01:26 64342kN >19.axb5! > ± (0.72) Depth: 12/34 00:01:47 80440kN >19.axb5! f4 20.Bxf4 Bxf4 21.Rxe6 Bxe6 22.bxa6 Bxd2 23.Qxd2 Qf5 24.Bc4 Ra8 > ± (0.88) Depth: 12/34 00:02:03 92649kN >19.axb5 f4 20.Bxf4 Bxf4 21.Rxe6 Bxe6 22.bxa6 Qg4 23.a7 Ra8 24.Qc4 > ± (0.81) Depth: 13/36 00:03:22 155647kN >19.Qf1! > ± (0.84) Depth: 13/38 00:04:25 204252kN >19.Qf1! Qh5 20.f4 Kh8 21.Bxd5 cxd5 22.axb5 Qe8 23.Kf2 axb5 > ± (0.88) Depth: 13/39 00:05:08 236807kN >19.Qf1 Qh5 20.f4 bxa4 21.Rxa4 Rb8 22.Bf2 Re2 23.Rxa6 Rxd2 24.Bxd5+ cxd5 > ± (0.75) Depth: 14/36 00:07:34 348564kN >19.axb5! > ± (0.78) Depth: 14/39 00:09:19 434272kN >19.axb5! f4 20.Bxf4 Bxf4 21.Rxe6 Bxe6 22.bxa6 Bxd2 23.Qxd2 Nc7 24.Bxe6+ Qxe6 > ± (0.88) Depth: 14/40 00:11:29 537347kN > >(blass, tel-aviv 28.01.2003) I was wrong Fritz8 that cannot find axb5 at depth 14 and it seems that it has different opinion than Deep Fritz6 New game - Crafty 19.01 [D]5rk1/6pp/p1pbr3/1p1n1p2/P2P2b1/1BPQB1Pq/1P1N1P1P/R3R1K1 w - f6 0 1 Analysis by Fritz 8: 19.Qf1 Qxf1+ 20.Kxf1 b4 21.Bf4 Bxf4 22.gxf4 ² (0.56) Depth: 5/27 00:00:00 106kN 19.Qf1 Qxf1+ 20.Kxf1 b4 21.Nc4 Bh3+ 22.Kg1 ² (0.66) Depth: 6/23 00:00:00 146kN 19.Qf1 Qxf1+ 20.Kxf1 b4 21.Nc4 Bh3+ 22.Kg1 f4 23.Bd2 bxc3 24.Rxe6 ² (0.66) Depth: 7/28 00:00:00 360kN 19.Qf1 Qxf1+ 20.Nxf1 Kf7 21.axb5 axb5 22.Ra7+ Kg6 23.Ra6 Rc8 24.Nd2 ² (0.63) Depth: 8/27 00:00:03 970kN 19.Qf1 Qxf1+ 20.Nxf1 Kf7 21.Nd2 b4 22.Nc4 Bc7 23.cxb4 Rfe8 ± (0.72) Depth: 9/30 00:00:08 2531kN 19.Qf1 Qh5 20.Qg2 f4 21.Bxf4 Bxf4 22.gxf4 bxa4 23.Rxe6 Bxe6 24.Rxa4 Qe2 ² (0.69) Depth: 10/29 00:00:20 7391kN 19.Qf1 Qh5 20.axb5 f4 21.Bxf4 Bxf4 22.Rxe6 Bxe6 ² (0.66) Depth: 11/33 00:00:39 15052kN 19.Qf1 bxa4 20.Rxa4 Qh5 21.f4 Rb8 22.Bxd5 cxd5 23.Qg2 Rb5 ² (0.56) Depth: 12/34 00:01:26 33096kN 19.Qf1 Qh5 20.axb5 f4 21.Bxf4 Bxf4 22.Rxe6 Bxe6 23.gxf4 axb5 24.Qg2 Qf7 25.Ra6 ± (0.72) Depth: 13/35 00:03:34 88160kN 19.Qf1 Qh5 20.axb5 f4 21.Bxf4 Bxf4 22.Rxe6 Bxe6 23.gxf4 axb5 24.Qg2 Qe2 ² (0.69) Depth: 14/38 00:07:10 178685kN (Blass, Tel-Aviv 28.01.2003) After axb5 New game - Crafty 19.01 5rk1/6pp/p1pbr3/1P1n1p2/3P2b1/1BPQB1Pq/1P1N1P1P/R3R1K1 b - - 0 1 Analysis by Fritz 8: 19...f4! = (0.22) Depth: 6/24 00:00:00 86kN 19...f4 20.Bxd5 cxd5 21.Bxf4 Bxf4 22.Rxe6 Bxe6 23.bxa6 Bxd2 = (0.19) Depth: 6/24 00:00:00 104kN 19...f4! = (-0.09) Depth: 7/25 00:00:01 303kN 19...f4! ³ (-0.38) Depth: 7/29 00:00:01 421kN 19...f4-- = (-0.09) Depth: 8/27 00:00:03 812kN 19...f4 20.Bxf4 Bxf4 = (-0.09) Depth: 8/27 00:00:03 863kN 19...f4-- = (0.19) Depth: 9/29 00:00:05 1265kN 19...f4 20.Bxf4 Bxf4 = (0.19) Depth: 9/31 00:00:07 1891kN 19...f4 20.Bxf4 Bxf4 21.Bxd5 cxd5 22.Rxe6 Bxe6 23.bxa6 Bc7 24.Qb5 Qg4 25.Qc6 = (0.12) Depth: 10/33 00:00:17 5915kN 19...f4 20.Bxf4 Bxf4 21.Bxd5 cxd5 22.Rxe6 Bxe6 23.bxa6 Bc7 24.Qb5 = (0.12) Depth: 11/32 00:00:32 12002kN 19...f4 20.Bxf4 Bxf4 21.Bxd5 cxd5 22.Rxe6 Bxe6 23.bxa6 Qg4 24.a7 Ra8 = (0.19) Depth: 12/39 00:01:13 28997kN 19...f4 20.Bxf4 Bxf4 21.Bxd5 cxd5 22.Rxe6 Bxe6 23.bxa6 Bf5 24.Qe2 Bxd2 = (0.19) Depth: 13/40 00:03:02 74709kN (Blass, Tel-Aviv 28.01.2003) After 19...f4 20.Bxf4 Bxf4 New game - Crafty 19.01 5rk1/6pp/p1p1r3/1P1n4/3P1bb1/1BPQ2Pq/1P1N1P1P/R3R1K1 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Fritz 8: 21.Bxd5 cxd5 22.Rxe6 Bxe6 23.bxa6 Ra8 24.Nf3 Bc7 25.Ng5 Qh6 26.Nxe6 = (0.06) Depth: 6/21 00:00:00 88kN 21.Bxd5 cxd5 22.Rxe6 Bxe6 23.bxa6 Ra8 24.Nf3 Bc7 25.Ng5 Qh6 26.Nxe6 = (0.06) Depth: 7/19 00:00:00 110kN 21.Bxd5 cxd5 22.Rxe6 Bxe6 23.bxa6 Ra8 24.Nf3 Bc7 25.Ng5 Qh6 26.Nxe6 = (0.06) Depth: 8/20 00:00:01 310kN 21.Bxd5 cxd5 22.Rxe6 Bxe6 23.bxa6 Ra8 24.Nf3 Bc7 25.Ng5 Qh6 26.Nxe6 Qxe6 27.Qf3 Ra7 = (0.16) Depth: 9/26 00:00:03 736kN 21.Bxd5 cxd5 22.Rxe6 Bxe6 23.bxa6 Ra8 24.Qb5 Bxd2 25.Qb7 Rf8 ² (0.28) Depth: 10/32 00:00:09 2971kN 21.Bxd5 cxd5 22.Rxe6 Bxe6 23.bxa6 Bf5 24.Qe2 Bxd2 25.Qxd2 Bg4 26.f4 Qh6 27.Qg2 Qc6 28.Ra5 Rf5 = (0.06) Depth: 11/30 00:00:19 6905kN 21.Rxe6! = (0.09) Depth: 11/34 00:00:29 11482kN 21.Rxe6! = (0.25) Depth: 11/34 00:00:40 16423kN 21.Rxe6 Bxe6 22.bxc6 Bxd2 23.Qxd2 Rf6 24.Qg5 Nc7 25.d5 Bf7 26.f4 Ne8 ² (0.44) Depth: 11/34 00:00:53 22336kN 21.Rxe6 Bxe6 22.bxa6 Bxd2 23.Qxd2 Ra8 24.Qg5 Nc7 25.Qh4 Qf5 26.Qf4 Qg6 = (0.25) Depth: 12/38 00:02:07 54245kN 21.Rxe6 Bxe6 22.bxa6 Bxd2 23.Qxd2 Ra8 24.Qe2 Bf7 25.Qe5 Qd7 26.Bc2 Nf6 ² (0.31) Depth: 13/38 00:04:12 109439kN (Blass, Tel-Aviv 28.01.2003) After 21.Rxe6 Bxe6 22.bxa6 New game - Crafty 19.01 [D]5rk1/6pp/P1p1b3/3n4/3P1b2/1BPQ2Pq/1P1N1P1P/R5K1 b - - 0 1 Analysis by Fritz 8: 22...Bg5 23.Ne4 Be7 24.Nc5 Bxc5 25.dxc5 = (-0.03) Depth: 5/19 00:00:00 62kN 22...Bg5 23.Qe2 Ra8 24.Re1 Bf7 25.f4 = (-0.06) Depth: 6/18 00:00:00 97kN 22...Bg5-- = (0.22) Depth: 7/18 00:00:00 215kN 22...Bg5 23.a7 Ra8 24.Qc4 Bd7 25.Nf3 Qf5 26.Ne5 Qe6 ² (0.44) Depth: 7/20 00:00:00 270kN 22...Bxd2! ² (0.41) Depth: 7/24 00:00:01 447kN 22...Bxd2! = (0.25) Depth: 7/24 00:00:01 449kN 22...Bxd2 23.Qxd2 Qf5 24.a7 = (0.16) Depth: 7/24 00:00:01 495kN 22...Bxd2 23.Qxd2 Nf6 24.Bxe6+ Qxe6 25.b4 Qf7 26.Qf4 Qd7 27.f3 = (0.12) Depth: 8/24 00:00:03 833kN 22...Bxd2 23.Qxd2 Nc7 24.Bxe6+ Qxe6 25.b4 Nd5 26.Qa2 Ra8 = (0.22) Depth: 9/26 00:00:06 1838kN 22...Bxd2 23.Qxd2 Nc7 24.Bxe6+ Qxe6 25.a7 Qb3 26.f4 Ra8 27.Qg2 ² (0.28) Depth: 10/30 00:00:12 4273kN 22...Bxd2 23.Qxd2 Nc7 24.Bxe6+ Qxe6 25.a7 Qb3 26.f4 Qf7 27.Qg2 ² (0.31) Depth: 11/36 00:00:26 10609kN 22...Bxd2 23.Qxd2 Ra8 24.Qe2 Bf7 25.Qe5 Qd7 26.Bc2 Nf6 ² (0.31) Depth: 12/35 00:01:01 25695kN 22...Bxd2 23.Qxd2 Bf7 24.Qg5 Qd7 25.f3 h6 26.Qg4 Qa7 27.Qe4 ² (0.34) Depth: 13/36 00:02:31 67881kN 22...Bxd2 23.Qxd2 Nc7 24.Bxe6+ Qxe6 25.a7 Qb3 26.f4 Ra8 27.Qe2 Kh8 28.f5 Nb5 ² (0.31) Depth: 14/37 00:05:33 151922kN (Blass, Tel-Aviv 28.01.2003)
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