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Subject: Re: Amir should use the Quad 1.9 Ghz instead of the 8x 1.6 !

Author: Yen Art Tham

Date: 14:12:53 01/29/03

Go up one level in this thread


On January 29, 2003 at 12:06:50, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On January 29, 2003 at 11:38:37, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On January 28, 2003 at 10:33:15, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On January 28, 2003 at 09:07:35, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 28, 2003 at 03:33:44, Mig Greengard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>According to the tech I talked with, Amir and Shay were testing both machines
>>>>>before the match to see which one they would use. To my knowledge it wasn't
>>>>>decided until a day or two before the match. Obviously there isn't a big
>>>>>difference in performance.
>>>>>
>>>>>Saludos, Mig
>>>>>http://www.chessninja.com
>>>>
>>>>thanks.
>>>>
>>>>DIEP onto the 8 processor 1.6 would be running 16 processes and speed would
>>>>be about expressed in K7:
>>>>  8 x 1.6 Ghz / 1.4 = 9 Ghz
>>>
>>>
>>>No it wouldn't.  You haven't tried an 8-way intel box yet.  It doesn't scale
>>>nearly as well as the 2-way and 4-way intel boxes do.  The chipset for
>>>supporting 8 cpus is simply not very good...
>>
>>DIEP isn't demanding much bandwidth Bob in case you missed it, it works
>>great on a cc-NUMA machine too.
>
>It demands _enough_ bandwidth.  My comment wasn't only about "crafty" It was
>about the 8-way boxes in general.  I ran on a dell 8450, with 8 700mhz xeon
>processors, and it was about 1.5X faster than my box.  And again, _not_ with
>Crafty.  I ran 8 copies of the same thing on the 8450, 4 copies on the quad,
>and compared the total run times.  The 8450 was only about 50% faster when it
>should be 100% based on clock...
>
>
>
>>
>>>The 8-way box using the same clock speed for the processors will only be about
>>>1.5X faster than the 4-way box, and that doesn't count parallel search overhead
>>>at all.
>>
>>That's not true. It's 8 times faster for good software. Of course there is
>>algorithmic loss but there is no sequential loss unless the software sucks,
>>to say it rude.
>
>Have you ever run on one?  Of course not.  I have.  So your "that's not true"
>is simply nonsense...  There are _plenty_ of good benchmarks that can be used
>to draw conclusions about the 8-way memory bottleneck problem.
>
>It _might_ be 8x faster if you can fit in the L2 cache (this machine had
>2mb of L2 per processor compared to my 1mb on my quad 700).  But if you have
>any memory bandwidth at all, it has a problem.  And a 8-probe hash table is
>more than enough to highlight the problem.


I have a dumb question: you said "fit in the L2 cache", what
fits in the L2 cache? engine? hash?


>
>
>
>
>>
>>Doesn't say that it is easy to make software that can handle the latencies.
>>
>>It sure isn't easy to make a chessprogram that is having a good speedup
>>(without a too big sequential loss first like Zugzwang which was slowed down
>>first like 100 times or so in order to then have a decent speedup at like
>>256 processors; 50% speedup even incredible much i would be *very* happy with
>>around 15% already).
>>
>>But it is possible to make.
>>
>>DIEP is such a program that shows it can. DIEP runs like the sun on 8 cpu's
>>(2 nodes quad SGI), even at the slowest partitions (slowest latency speeds
>>are of course at the biggest partitions: 512 cpu partition).
>>
>>A 8 processor Xeon is hell for pc software like Fritz, Junior, Crafty, but it
>>is very good for DIEP.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Vincent



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