Author: John Merlino
Date: 19:28:03 02/03/03
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On February 03, 2003 at 22:20:49, John Merlino wrote: >On February 03, 2003 at 21:37:06, Mustafa wrote: > >>Hey John, >> as i posted the position early today there is mate in 5 because i >>had the position from a tactical database if u wish i can post the move here. > >You are wrong. Or, rather, your tactical database is wrong. > >Here is the position again: > >[D]4rb2/1p1q1ppk/p1n1p2p/2p1Pn2/3PNR2/2P2K2/P2QBP2/6R1 w - - 0 1 > >There is ABSOLUTELY no forced mate in 5 moves. There is not even a forced mate >in NINE moves from this position. 1.Rxf5 is a good test move for computers, but >there is NOTHING that forces Black to reply 1...exf5. > >Secondly, even if Black DOES reply 1...exf5, it is not a Mate in 4 from there, >as you claim. Here is what you posted: > >------------- >1. Rxf5 exf5 2. Qxh6+ Kxh6 (2... gxh6 3. Nf6+ Kh8 4. Rg8#) 3. Rh1+ Kg6 4. Kf4 >Qe6 5. Rh8 1-0 >------------- > >1...Nxd4+ is BY FAR the best reply to 1.Rxf5. It appears to be the only move to >give Black a fighting chance. > >If Black foolishly replies 1...exf5, then the following is forced: > >2.Qxh6+ Kxh6 3.Rh1 Kg6 4.Kf4 > >Now Black has six different moves that will all lead to mate in THREE more moves >for White. Here is one example: > >4...Qe6 5.Rh8 Qxe5+ 6.dxe5 fxe4 7.Bh6# > >So, your initial position is a mate in SEVEN moves, but ONLY if Black replies >1...exf5 (or something even worse than that). If Black replies 1...Nxd4+, then >White will almost certainly win, but there is a lot more chess to play.... For >example: > >2.cxd4 exf5 3.Qxh6+ Kxh6 4.Rh1+ Kg6 5.Kf4 Qc6 6.d5 Qf6! 7.Bh5+ (if 7.exf6 Rxe4+! >8.Kf3 Kxf6 0-1) 7...Kh7 8.Nxf6+ gxf6 9.Bxf7+ Bh6+ 10.Rxh6+ Kxh6 11.Bxe8 1-0 -- >but mate is still quite a ways away.... > >jm Chessmaster has just announced that, after 11.Bxe8 above, checkmate is 10 moves away: Time Depth Score Positions Moves 4:06 10/14 Mate10 26172909 11...c4 12.d6 c3 13.Ba4 c2 14.Bxc2 Kg6 15.d7 fxe5+ 16.Kxe5 Kh6 17.Kxf5 Kg7 18.d8=Q Kf7 19.Bb3+ Kg7 20.Qg8+ Kh6 21.Qg6# So, from the initial position, it appears that there MIGHT be a forced mate in 21. I'm not sure if, in my above line, 2...exf5 is the best move, but it sure seems to be. So maybe you can enter "Mate in 21" in your tactical database.... :-) jm
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