Author: Jarkko Pesonen
Date: 12:29:00 02/04/03
Go up one level in this thread
The position was derived from this earlier position.
There is 9th move Nc3
[D] 7r/2qpkp2/p3p3/6P1/1p5r/7P/PPP2QK1/R2N1R2 b
Crafty 19.3
7 0.12 1.93 2. ... Qc6+ 3. Qf3 Rxh3 4. Qxc6 dxc6
5. Nf2 Rh2+ 6. Kf3 Re8
7-> 0.25 1.93 2. ... Qc6+ 3. Qf3 Rxh3 4. Qxc6 dxc6
5. Nf2 Rh2+ 6. Kf3 Re8
8 0.36 1.81 2. ... Qc6+ 3. Qf3 Rxh3 4. Qxc6 dxc6
5. Rf4 Rh2+ 6. Kf1 Rg8 7. Ne3 Rxg5
8. Rxb4
8-> 0.89 1.81 2. ... Qc6+ 3. Qf3 Rxh3 4. Qxc6 dxc6
5. Rf4 Rh2+ 6. Kf1 Rg8 7. Ne3 Rxg5
8. Rxb4
9 1.04 1.47 2. ... Qc6+ 3. Qf3 Rxh3 4. Qxc6 dxc6
5. Nf2 R3h5 6. Kf3 Rxg5 7. Rad1
9 5.67 ++ 2. ... Rxh3!!
9 8.11 0.79 2. ... Rxh3 3. Qxf7+ Kd8 4. Qf6+ Ke8
5. Kf2 Qxc2+ 6. Ke1 Qe4+ 7. Kd2 Qd3+
8. Kc1 Qc4+ 9. Nc3 bxc3
9-> 8.76 0.79 2. ... Rxh3 3. Qxf7+ Kd8 4. Qf6+ Ke8
5. Kf2 Qxc2+ 6. Ke1 Qe4+ 7. Kd2 Qd3+
8. Kc1 Qc4+ 9. Nc3 bxc3
10 10.73 1.00 2. ... Rxh3 3. Qxf7+ Kd8 4. Qf6+ Ke8
5. Kf2 Qxc2+ 6. Ke1 Qe4+ 7. Kd2 Qd3+
8. Kc1 Qc4+ 9. Nc3 bxc3 10. g6 cxb2+
11. Kxb2
10-> 17.01 1.00 2. ... Rxh3 3. Qxf7+ Kd8 4. Qf6+ Ke8
5. Kf2 Qxc2+ 6. Ke1 Qe4+ 7. Kd2 Qd3+
8. Kc1 Qc4+ 9. Nc3 bxc3 10. g6 cxb2+
11. Kxb2
11 23.64 ++ 2. ... Rxh3!!
11 34.36 0.56 2. ... Rxh3 3. Qxf7+ Kd8 4. Qf6+ Ke8
5. Kf2 Qxc2+ 6. Ke1 Qe4+ 7. Kd2 Qd3+
8. Kc1 Qc4+ 9. Nc3 bxc3 10. g6 cxb2+
11. Kxb2 Rh2+ 12. Ka3
11-> 42.58 0.56 2. ... Rxh3 3. Qxf7+ Kd8 4. Qf6+ Ke8
5. Kf2 Qxc2+ 6. Ke1 Qe4+ 7. Kd2 Qd3+
8. Kc1 Qc4+ 9. Nc3 bxc3 10. g6 cxb2+
11. Kxb2 Rh2+ 12. Ka3
12 1:18 ++ 2. ... Rxh3!!
12 3:11 0.00 2. ... Rxh3 3. Qxf7+ Kd8 4. Qf6+ Ke8
5. Kf2 Qxc2+ 6. Ke1 Qe4+ 7. Kd2 Qd3+
8. Ke1 Re3+ 9. Nxe3 Qxe3+ 10. Kd1 Qd3+
11. Ke1 Qe3+
Ruffian:
Depth Time Score Best line
8/23 1.51 ++ ... f5
8/23 2.53 -1.21 ... f5 Rg1 Rxh3 Qd4 Qxc2+ Kf1 Ke8 Ke1 a5
8--> 2.73 -1.21 ... f5 Rg1 Rxh3 Qd4 Qxc2+ Kf1 Ke8 Ke1 a5
9/24 3.76 -1.31 ... f5 Rg1 Rxh3 Kf1 Rh2 Qd4 Qxc2 Qxb4+ Ke8 Qb8+ Ke7
Qe5
9/25 5.42 x.xx ... Rxh3
9/25 5.95 ++ ... Rxh3
9/26 7.06 0.00 ... Rxh3 Qxf7+ Kd8 Qf6+ Ke8 Kf2 Qxc2+ Ke1 Qe4+ Kd2
Qd3+ Kc1 Qc4+ Kb1 Qe4+ Kc1 Qc4+
9--> 7.53 0.00 ... Rxh3 Qxf7+ Kd8 Qf6+ Ke8 Kf2 Qxc2+ Ke1 Qe4+ Kd2
Qd3+ Kc1 Qc4+ Kb1 Qe4+ Kc1 Qc4+
10/28 8.92 0.00 ... Rxh3 Qxf7+ Kd8 Qf6+ Ke8 Kf2 Qxc2+ Ke1 Qe4+ Kd2
Qd3+ Kc1 Qc4+ Kb1 Qe4+ Kc1 Qc4+
10--> 9.87 0.00 ... Rxh3 Qxf7+ Kd8 Qf6+ Ke8 Kf2 Qxc2+ Ke1 Qe4+ Kd2
Qd3+ Kc1 Qc4+ Kb1 Qe4+ Kc1 Qc4+
11/31 14.73 0.00 ... Rxh3 Qxf7+ Kd8 Qf6+ Ke8 Kf2 Qxc2+ Ke1 Qe4+ Kd2
Qd3+ Kc1 Qc4+ Kb1 Qe4+ Kc1 Qc4+
11--> 17.62 0.00 ... Rxh3 Qxf7+ Kd8 Qf6+ Ke8 Kf2 Qxc2+ Ke1 Qe4+ Kd2
Qd3+ Kc1 Qc4+ Kb1 Qe4+ Kc1 Qc4+
There is difference in speed an in which ply depth
draw is detected
Jarkko
******************************************
On February 04, 2003 at 13:28:55, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On February 04, 2003 at 13:26:43, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On February 04, 2003 at 08:37:57, Jarkko Pesonen wrote:
>>
>>>[D] 4k2r/3p4/p3pQ2/6P1/1pq5/7r/PP6/R1KN1R2 w
>>>
>>>This is draw , but how do you statically can evaluate that it so?
>>>
>>>This was the quiescent position and crafty suggested Nc3 bxc3 and not go for
>>>repetion(eval 0.09 for crafty statically after these moves but search from this
>>>position reveals that this loses rook at lest ) and ruffian correctly wanted to
>>>play Kb1 which was the repeating move.
>>>
>>>
>>>Anyway ruffian seems to find drawing lines much sooner than crafty.
>>>Does anyone have a glue why it is so fast.
>>>It catches draw a few ply earlier than crafty.
>>>Is there a way fix this in crafty?
>>>
>>>
>>>Jarkko
>>
>>
>>You are probably mis-interpreting the concept of "draw".
>>
>>For a program to see a draw by repetition, two things have to happen:
>>
>>1. It has to believe that one side can _force_ the repetition, if the other
>>side plays
>>in a particular way.
>>
>>2. It has to believe that the other side would be worse off it it tries to
>>avoid the
>>repetition.
>>
>>All you need in a position like this is to think that one side is is better than
>>the other,
>>and you might or might not be able to see the repetition. IF one program thinks
>>white is slightly better, then it would think that black would try to force the
>>repetition
>>and white must go along or else get "worse". If another program thinks black is
>>better, then it might totally ignore the repetition opportunity.
>>
>>Usually one side has the option to vary, say in a perpetual check the checking
>>side doesn't
>>have to check. But he has to believe that if he doesn't check, the opponent has
>>a better
>>resulting position. If that is not true, the perpetual won't be played.
>
>
>I tried this position and Crafty spots a repetition instantly:
>
> 5 0.04 -Mat04 1. Kd2 Rd3+ 2. Ke1 Qe4+ 3. Kf2 Rh2+
> 4. Kg1 Qh1#
> 5 0.07 -0.46 1. Nc3 bxc3 2. g6 cxb2+ 3. Kxb2 d6
> 5 0.07 0.00 1. Kb1 Qd3+ 2. Kc1 Qc4+
> 7 0.15 0.00 1. Kb1 Qd3+ 2. Kc1 Qc4+
> 7-> 0.16 0.00 1. Kb1 Qd3+ 2. Kc1 Qc4+
> 8 0.33 0.00 1. Kb1 Qd3+ 2. Kc1 Qc4+
> 8-> 0.42 0.00 1. Kb1 Qd3+ 2. Kc1 Qc4+ (s=2)
> 9 0.93 0.00 1. Kb1 Qd3+ 2. Kc1 Qc4+
> 9-> 1.01 0.00 1. Kb1 Qd3+ 2. Kc1 Qc4+
> 10 2.34 0.00 1. Kb1 Qd3+ 2. Kc1 Qc4+
> 10-> 2.38 0.00 1. Kb1 Qd3+ 2. Kc1 Qc4+
> 11 7.25 0.00 1. Kb1 Qd3+ 2. Kc1 Qc4+
> 11-> 7.68 0.00 1. Kb1 Qd3+ 2. Kc1 Qc4+
> 12 29.98 0.00 1. Kb1 Qd3+ 2. Kc1 Qc4+
> 12-> 30.48 0.00 1. Kb1 Qd3+ 2. Kc1 Qc4+
>
>
>I'm not sure it could do any better than .07 seconds for spotting this, and this
>was not
>run on my dual xeon either, but on a quad 550 that is about 1/3 the speed...
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